Safety upgrade for HPDE

[barspen]

New to the forum and wanted to get some opinions on safety upgrades for HPDE on my 2011 GT500. I moved up to the advanced group last spring, with about 4 years of HPDE, 2-3 times per year.

Done a bunch of research and reading on several forums and when it comes to safety upgrades, the more experience folks seem to have an ‘all or nothing’ approach in many cases. For my application, 99% street/DD, I want something that is flexible/removable, keeps me planted better in the seat and is safer than the 3-point harness alone.

I’m looking at the Schroth QuickFit Pro 4-point mounting to the factory receptacles and adding a crotch bracket under the seat to make it into a 5- or 6-point harness. Seriously considering a HANS or Schroth SHR flex head restraint.

This should put me at about $1000-$1500 and I can avoid doing a harness bar or roll cage and race seat.

Not trying to cut corners, but want to find a reasonable solution based on my application and something that will keep me safe. Appreciate any feedback.

THX, Barry

 

[TMSBOSS]

A harness which keeps you planted in your seat brings with it added considerations. In a roll over you factory 3 point will allow you some movement allowing you to,escape the fof crushing down on your head. With a harness, you are stuck and the roof will not stop at your head. This is where the all or nothing mentality comes from.

I started with a 6 point harness and a harness bar. I moved up to a Watson Removalble 4 point roll around. Once mounted, this bar can be removed in less than an hour. 16 bolts, two set screws and she comes right out.

Avoiding a harness bar and or roll bar is a compromise. If needed, it could cost you a whole lot.

Roll bar, 5-6 point harness' helmet and HANS is a minimum system.

If you have a $50 head, invest as you see fit.

Asking folks to advise on a compromise which could be fatal.......

Can you "Get Away With It"? Yes.....until you don't.

Not what you wanted to hear...I got it.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Good advice FWIW I've never ran a 5 or 6 point without a roll bar for that very reason. I'm glad I'm not the only guy that thinks that way.
If you choose to go without a roll bar and rely on the stock belts, they make a device that defeats the retractor so the belt stays tight, I've used them in stock class autocross cars for years. it's called the CG lock and works very well.
http://www.cg-lock.com/autocross.html

As for the helmet, get the SA certified helmet, the "M" is for motorcycles and is not fire proof the SA is, that's the only difference,

 

[VoodooBoss]

Your safety is a personal decision based on the risks you're willing to take. Anything short of a full roll cage, fire suppression system, halo race seat, six point harness plus all of the safety gear for your body is a compromise. Schroth is a large OEM manufacturer and has a lot of experience with safety. I highly recommend you call them and discuss what you want to do and get their opinion.

As a general rule the more safety gear the better. ;D

 

[Sydewaysix]

As mentioned already, at the very minimum, I would recommend a roll bar and 5 or 6pt harness. If you need to use the rear seats and don't want to remove the roll bar every time, I believe there are options to have a bolt-in harness bar tied into your roll bar (at least that's what my old mustang had). If you can't do the roll bar option, stay away from any type of harness and do as @blacksheep-1 recommends by using a CGLock with the stock belts.

That being said, I'm in the same boat as you right now. I don't really want to start cutting/drilling into my car to install a roll bar, but I do want/need that added safety for the occasional trackday events. May have to go the CGLock route for the first couple outings with the Boss and decide from there...

 

[Hermes]

I'm in a similar situation as you since I DD my car all summer and go to about 3 HPDE events per year. What I did was set up the Watson 4 point roll bar with a 6 point harness and the sub belt mounts from Mike [06Mach1]. I remove the rear seats and a few interior panels and mount the roll bar before each event and remove the roll bar and reinstall the seats after each event. It takes about 1/2 hour max [the first time took significantly longer]. If you don't mind spending some extra time to prep your car before and after an event, I've found this to be a good solution for my needs as I too had concerns about running a 5 or 6 point harness without a roll bar.

Good luck with your set up.

 

[Sydewaysix]

I'm really interested to see how easy it actually is to remove a roll bar between trackdays. In my previous 98 cobra with MM 4-pt roll bar, it was almost impossible to swap in and out as the halo and down tubes were welded together, making it quite difficult to maneuver out of the car.

 

[dabossinnne]

I'm really interested to see how easy it actually is to remove a roll bar between trackdays. In my previous 98 cobra with MM 4-pt roll bar, it was almost impossible to swap in and out as the halo and down tubes were welded together, making it quite difficult to maneuver out of the car.

On the Watson bar, the down tubes are detachable and incorporate a special coupling design. Makes it a snap to remove (if it's bolted in, of course), while providing good installed rigidity. Well, maybe not a snap, but not too difficult.

Along with the 4 pt Watson roll bar (mostly for mounting a shoulder harness), my other safety mods this year were pretty much the same as Hermes. I went with a Schroth Profi II 6 pt harness and 06Mach1's excellent mount for the sub and lap belts. I'm also using a HANS, which I think is essential.

Since I'm probably done with HPDEs for this year (SIGH), for next year I have a new SA15 helmet on order and contemplating going with a "halo" type racing seat, such as Sparco 'Ergo' (has removable head extensions).

 

[Sydewaysix]

On the Watson bar, the down tubes are detachable and incorporate a special coupling design. Makes it a snap to remove (if it's bolted in, of course), while providing good installed rigidity. Well, maybe not a snap, but not too difficult.

Good to know, thank you! I assume there is some type of cutting of the rear panels required for the down tubes?

 

[TMSBOSS]

Down tubes bolt up to the ease center floor section behind the seats, no trim cutting.

Take a look at Watsons site. When I bought they had instructions for install available to download. Give them a read and see what you think.

Only interior panels that will need trimming, assuming you need to install trim when the bar is installer are the two side trim panels below the windows.

Watson supplies 4 bolt plates which rivet to gussets and the floor. Nuts are part of the plates. Once installed, you simply remove the bolts, separate the down tunes, two bolts and remove.

 

[barspen]

Thanks for the advice and opinions.

I have looked at a harness bar as an option and don't mind going this route. I will check out Watsons site.

But my bigger concerns is the seat. When talking about harness bars and 5- or 6-point harnesses, are you all using stock seats or a racing seat? I'm assuming many of you have Recaros, which are better designed for routing the top belts. I have stock leather seats which have an adjustable headrest.

Is it 'safe' to have use the harness mentions with my stock seat, a harness bar and crotch-strap bar?

 

[Tucson 302]

Is it 'safe' to have use the harness mentions with my stock seat, a harness bar and crotch-strap bar?

I see you are located in Phoenix so if you intend on running HPDE with NASAAZ the belt between the seat and under the crotch won't fly, not an issue if you run with Pro Auto Sports. Before I put in a racing seat I tried that and they (NASAAZ) would not let me use that setup, luckily I still had the stock 3 point belts at that time. If it were me I would skip the harness bar and go straight to the Watson roll bar a little more work to install and more $, but in the end it does the same as the harness bar and gives an added protection from roll overs.

My car will be fully caged by the end of this calendar year, so I could hook you up with my Watson roll bar if you can wait a couple of months (possibly sooner if schedules permit)

 

[barspen]

I see you are located in Phoenix so if you intend on running HPDE with NASAAZ the belt between the seat and under the crotch won't fly, not an issue if you run with Pro Auto Sports. Before I put in a racing seat I tried that and they (NASAAZ) would not let me use that setup, luckily I still had the stock 3 point belts at that time. If it were me I would skip the harness bar and go straight to the Watson roll bar a little more work to install and more $, but in the end it does the same as the harness bar and gives an added protection from roll overs.

My car will be fully caged by the end of this calendar year, so I could hook you up with my Watson roll bar if you can wait a couple of months (possibly sooner if schedules permit)

I run with ProAutoSports. I'm planning to hit AMP in December, so if you have the Watson setup for sale in a couple months (Thanksgiving week-ish?), I'd be interested. If I can fit everything in the Mustang (dissembled), it would be an excuse for a road trip to take my wife to Cafe Posa Casa for a nice dinner

Interested in install process and removal, in case I need to get passengers in the back, although that's rare. Let me know...

THX, Barry

 

[ford20]

What are you guys using for a 5 point harness?

 

[jlwdvm]

I was in the same situation earlier this year with my GT350. I had long heard the advice from members that one shouldn't use a harness without a roll bar. I decided to ask Ron Sutton, who some would consider an expert in the field of building safe track cars, has owned several race teams, owns a pro touring/track car online store, etc. He said that the argument of not using a harness without a roll bar isn't valid. His opinion is that you will be safer with a harness than with a OEM set up during a crash without a roll bar. He sent me a Schroth 4-point Quick Fit to use in my 350. I also picked up a slightly used HANS II on ebay. That is what I use when tracking....but I am no expert!

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

His opinion is that you will be safer with a harness than with a OEM set up during a crash without a roll bar.

Sure, in a non-rollover crash.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Sure, in a non-rollover crash.

If the roof comes down, bad things will happen quickly. All for the price of a good set of tires?

 

[jlwdvm]

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=48392&page=6

I broached the subject of a roll over without a roll bar and using a 4-point harness with Ron. Take it, and the rest of the opinions in this thread for what they are worth I guess.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I saw some videos of what happens with a four point harness. Was not very promising..... You need to stop the submarine effect. 5 point or more and some roll protection is a must once you get some serious speed.

Sent from my SM-G900M using Tapatalk

 

[ford20]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR_FhuSEaU8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=QuX9nd-UwBc

You mean this?

Which leads me to my next question, what 5 point harness were you guys using with the stock Recaros?