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Safety upgrades for higher speed autobahn driving

9
1
Exp. Type
Circle Track
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Germany
In the interest of safety, what upgrades to areas of concern would one make to a mustang gt 2018 non PP travelling an extra 45km to 183 miles after removing the factory limiter. Not looking for snowflake opinions or forum psychologists assessments on why this is dangerous. Just interested in any collective information that might already be known to make this less dangerous before throwing this car in the dyno air tunnel.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,167
3,150
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Autobahn runs of what length? Tire and a few safety items will likely get you close to the speed you want. Extended runs will require brakes and cooling upgrades to start. Aero will help handling but increase drag. Are you planning an occasional top end run on the autobahn only or will you make it to the ring and or other tracks.
Most of the psychology here has to do with going fast safely and dependably. Checking assumptions at the door could be helpful.
Welcome to the site.
 
In the interest of safety, what upgrades to areas of concern would one make to a mustang gt 2018 non PP travelling an extra 45km to 183 miles after removing the factory limiter. Not looking for snowflake opinions or forum psychologists assessments on why this is dangerous. Just interested in any collective information that might already be known to make this less dangerous before throwing this car in the dyno air tunnel.
As @TMSBOSS said, bigger brakes are advisable. If you have to slow down from that kind of speed, the factory brakes on your car will sign off and the pedal will go to the floor while you're still moving fairly fast. The other things to take into account are tires, wheels and TPMS. Ford Performance vehicles without limiters come with tires that are rated for the vehicle weight and the rated top speed, wheels that are safe for that speed and TPMS with metal stems like the TPMS39. At high speeds rubber stem TPMS can bend under the centrifugal force and leak and lose pressure, so the metal stem type are recommended.
 
9
1
Exp. Type
Circle Track
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Germany
Brakes!!! the stock non PP discs are dreadfull. A set of PP brembos with 15" discs will fix that and they are quite affordable for what you get..

Okay so I've ordered a set of new rims. Ford Performance Wheel HP Performance 19" X 9.5/ 10" which are the PP2 style made for non PP2 cars. this should upgrade the 18 inch rims to give clearance to the 6 piston brakes. I also went with the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tires with a Y rating and weight rating of 105 in the back and 102 in the front. This will probably take awhile to get to me. Do I need to upgrade just the front Calipers or does the rear need to be upgraded as well?
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,167
3,150
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Rear calipers do little work overall. As you improve the fronts and go faster, the rears do less. Weight transfer to the front increases with improved front brakes.
Short answer, no need to improve rear calipers. Pads can be improved to balance front and rear.
Ford wheels are going to be heavy comparEd to after market. Another member mentioned Apex wheel being available in EUROPE.
 
9
1
Exp. Type
Circle Track
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Germany
Rear calipers do little work overall. As you improve the fronts and go faster, the rears do less. Weight transfer to the front increases with improved front brakes.
Short answer, no need to improve rear calipers. Pads can be improved to balance front and rear.
Ford wheels are going to be heavy comparEd to after market. Another member mentioned Apex wheel being available in EUROPE.

Okay, so I cancelled the HP ford order and found what I believe to be a better set of wheels. I decided to go with

RTR Tech 7 Gloss Black Wheel; 19x10.5 in the rears with an positive offset of 45 and weight of 24 pounds
and
RTR Tech 7 Gloss Black Wheel; 19x9.5 in the front with an positive offset of 33mm and weight of 23 pounds

The stock wheel/tires are 55 pounds and I'd be saving 5 pounds each wheel/tire in the front and nothing maintaining the same weight in the front. Since I went down the rabbit hole of saving wheel weight, Steeda has rotors that save 7 pounds on each wheel in the front and 2 on each in the back. What do you think?
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,167
3,150
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Rotors can become a money pit. Two basic lines of thought.
1. Go as light as you can, weight costs speed. Unsprung rotating mass costs the most in speed.
2. If you are a casual participant, the extra money spent on rotors does not return on investment, buy stock.
How much do you want to spend?
The difference in cost for Girodisc rotors over stock on my 350 can almost pay for a track weekend entry fees.
 
9
1
Exp. Type
Circle Track
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Germany
Rotors can become a money pit. Two basic lines of thought.
1. Go as light as you can, weight costs speed. Unsprung rotating mass costs the most in speed.
2. If you are a casual participant, the extra money spent on rotors does not return on investment, buy stock.
How much do you want to spend?
The difference in cost for Girodisc rotors over stock on my 350 can almost pay for a track weekend entry fees.

Hopefully not more than 10k all in
 
14
22
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Naples, FL
Is there any issue with the rear half-shafts on the V8 models?

I thought I read one time of someone removing the rev limiter on their ECOBOOST Mustang and their half-shafts breaking above the rated speed.
 
Aside from brakes and tires being first and foremost, consider some suspension upgrades as well. With more tire grip and more braking power, the front end will want to nose dive under heavy braking. This can make the rear end light and you will actually feel the tail of the car wagging. If you're not braking in a perfectly straight line, or there is anything on the road like light dust, gravel, oil, or moisture, there is a chance that the rear could pivot around. Generally when you upgrade one thing, you have to upgrade other parts around it to make the entire car work better as a system.

One more safety thing to consider, is a one piece driveshaft designed for higher speeds and a driveshaft safety loop.
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
930
702
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
Rotors can become a money pit. Two basic lines of thought.
1. Go as light as you can, weight costs speed. Unsprung rotating mass costs the most in speed.
2. If you are a casual participant, the extra money spent on rotors does not return on investment, buy stock.
How much do you want to spend?
The difference in cost for Girodisc rotors over stock on my 350 can almost pay for a track weekend entry fees.
Rotating weight effects are negligible inside the last few mph preceding top speed (observed). The car's forward acceleration has all but ceased, and with it the necessary rotational accelerations of everything that spins (read, essentially zero torque loss to rotational accelerations).

It's your acceleration the rest of the way up that benefits, which is huge in competition on a road course. Not so much on a car that needs to be looked at more like a Bonneville Salt Flats racer. 30 lbs weight loss, whether sprung, unsprung, or rotating is probably going to be worth something like 0.03 mph in theoretical top speed.


Norm
 
3,605
3,421
I think you have a pretty good plan, the race car stuff that I'm tossing around is about 60 pounds of wheel and tire assembly, and I agree the difference in weight is negligible. The Ford Performance handling packs are very good and designed to work in harmony with the other components. Just keep an eye on the speed rating of the tires and the brake upgrade, as mentioned. Other than that, maybe a bolt in roll bar so you can sleep at night.
I'm kind of jealous, my personal best is only 151, (speaking hypothetically, of course, in case my insurance agent is on here).
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
930
702
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
Okay so I've ordered a set of new rims. Ford Performance Wheel HP Performance 19" X 9.5/ 10" which are the PP2 style made for non PP2 cars. this should upgrade the 18 inch rims to give clearance to the 6 piston brakes. I also went with the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tires with a Y rating and weight rating of 105 in the back and 102 in the front. This will probably take awhile to get to me. Do I need to upgrade just the front Calipers or does the rear need to be upgraded as well?
Good call on the tire choice . . . 186 mph rating vs your 183 mph target.

Be aware that additional cold inflation above Ford's door sticker numbers are at least advisable for the high speed running that's going to be involved here. You could easily be looking at adding 4 to 6 psi.

I suspect that this is tied to keeping the tires from developing standing waves, which from a safety standpoint you absolutely want to stay out of. But there's an indirect downward effect on the speed that your car might be able to reach. Standing wave flexing steals power away from the power delivered side of the power delivered to the tires vs power required for top speed equation . . .

Be safe, and give yourself the all the best chances of reaching your goal.


Norm
 
9
1
Exp. Type
Circle Track
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Germany
Update and a question.

So I got the tires and the rims ready to be mounted. Talking with ford performance engineers, they said the rubber are not recommended for more then 155 mph. So I replaced the stem with on a brand new set of pressure sensors with the Dill VS-925B metal values and got them installed with the property torque of 35 pounds for the stem and 12 lb for the bolt on the inside. The cap was another area of concern since it is thin plastic so I'm waiting on some high strength Aluminum caps from CJPonyParts.

Question. The tires will be mounted with a lubrication specifically for beads. Do you think bead sealer is needed? I contacted michelin and they could say anything besides it would void the warranty.

Also the car had its first test in an Aero tunnel. The hood has major problems which was fixed with high quality D weather stripping and reinforced with a high temperature rubber sealant. This was a serious improvement. Another issue was the plastic panel covering the oil filter, that piece failed after 20 minutes ripping the metal clips right out. We concluded the air being forced up has some serious cooling power and downforce so were trying to figure out how to reinforce this while keeping the ease of changing oil filters. I am thinking of having a custom light weight metal piece made with better upwards airflow. We are trying to find some statistical data to see what happens to traction at higher speeds without a wing and spoiler adding additional drag that could require more power to overcome.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,848
2,352
Santiago, Chile
Cool, would love to have access to a wind tunnel... though I would probably not like all kinds of things flying off the car!! I you are going to go over 155mph, maybe some hood pins and vents would be a good idea?

Have seen some 2018+ S550 cars having hood problems at very high speeds. Was fixed with some hood vents.
 
9
1
Exp. Type
Circle Track
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Germany
Cool, would love to have access to a wind tunnel... though I would probably not like all kinds of things flying off the car!! I you are going to go over 155mph, maybe some hood pins and vents would be a good idea?

Have seen some 2018+ S550 cars having hood problems at very high speeds. Was fixed with some hood vents.

Yes, me and the tech guy running the tunnel had a bit of a debate on this issue with hood pins. He basically sums up hood pins as a good idea but only as a complimentary solution. What was interesting is he only recommended then to be set at the point where you can see the hood lifting as a pre-warning and safety feature so you can see the hood lifting but have piece of mind you could slow down and address the issue.
 

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