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Soft pedal when switching to HP+ pads

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I use HPS pads on the street and switch to HP+ for track days. Every time I put on the track pads, my pedal goes mushy. As soon as I switch back to my HPS pads, it's fine. Has anyone ever experienced this? I'm running ATE fluid and braided lines. It stops fine on the track but it definitely needs way more pedal travel than on the street. I had no idea pads could affect pedal travel this much even at a standstill.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
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wherermykeys said:
I use HPS pads on the street and switch to HP+ for track days. Every time I put on the track pads, my pedal goes mushy. As soon as I switch back to my HPS pads, it's fine. Has anyone ever experienced this? I'm running ATE fluid and braided lines. It stops fine on the track but it definitely needs way more pedal travel than on the street. I had no idea pads could affect pedal travel this much even at a standstill.

Are your track pads square? Are they worn evenly?
 
Are the HP+'s more worn than the HPS?
If they are, you might be noticing the extra travel necessary to depress the pad against the rotor. Or it could just be the modulation characteristics of the HP+, if you don't like it, try a different brand/compound next time.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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wherermykeys said:
I use HPS pads on the street and switch to HP+ for track days. Every time I put on the track pads, my pedal goes mushy. As soon as I switch back to my HPS pads, it's fine. Has anyone ever experienced this? I'm running ATE fluid and braided lines. It stops fine on the track but it definitely needs way more pedal travel than on the street. I had no idea pads could affect pedal travel this much even at a standstill.
If the pads are not worn more and are worn evenly, then what you are feeling is the need to use the brakes more. The pads themselves have no ability to 'sink' the brake pedal more than another pad with the same physical dimemsions, as the compounds are solid. It sounds like you are just calling for more of the brakes and they may not be up to it, especially at lower emps.

A number of things to consider:

1) Get rid of the ATE fluid. The temps created by HP+ pads on the track would be much better served by Motul 600 or even better, Castrol SRF.
2) Whenever you swap pads out you should always do a quick bleed of the brakes.
3) Not that this is your specific issue, but air can get trapped in the ABS. 3 hard stops from 60 to 0, invoking the ABS on your tires each time, will force the air out of the ABS system and back into the main portion of the caliper where it can be bled more easily.
4) I would strongly suggest moving to a pro race pad for the track. There are a number of better options that will give you better stopping power, better modulaiton, and better wear of the pad as well as your rotors.

-Pete
 
The pads are slightly more worn than my street pads but not enough, I don't think to create that much more travel. I was thinking the same thing as pads don't really compress right? The problem is, it's not just when the car is moving. The pedal sinks lower just sitting at a standstill when the car is still parked after the pad change. Even when the pads get warmed up (second lap in) the pedal is still not as firm as on the street. It stops fine on the track but I would just like a firmer pedal.

Thanks for the advice:
I will be switching to Motul fluid soon
I always crack the bleeder when I compress the pistons and also do a quick bleed.
I'm going to be trying the DTC70 pads after the HP+ wears out.
 
I use the stock pads/ rotors on the street and Slotted rotors and HP+ pads on the track. I did 3 track events last year on the pads, and did not notice any issues with the pedal/ brakes.
 
PeteInCT said:
If the pads are not worn more and are worn evenly, then what you are feeling is the need to use the brakes more. The pads themselves have no ability to 'sink' the brake pedal more than another pad with the same physical dimemsions, as the compounds are solid. It sounds like you are just calling for more of the brakes and they may not be up to it, especially at lower emps.

A number of things to consider:

1) Get rid of the ATE fluid. The temps created by HP+ pads on the track would be much better served by Motul 600 or even better, Castrol SRF.
2) Whenever you swap pads out you should always do a quick bleed of the brakes.
3) Not that this is your specific issue, but air can get trapped in the ABS. 3 hard stops from 60 to 0, invoking the ABS on your tires each time, will force the air out of the ABS system and back into the main portion of the caliper where it can be bled more easily.
4) I would strongly suggest moving to a pro race pad for the track. There are a number of better options that will give you better stopping power, better modulaiton, and better wear of the pad as well as your rotors.

-Pete
ATE makes a good race fluid. ATE (Super Blue and Typ 200) is the only brake fluid I've used in the Boss. I have never boiled it and it rarely even darkens after track events. I do put some heat into my brakes so I've tested it pretty well. Es ist sehr gut! ;D
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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cloud9 said:
ATE makes a good race fluid. ATE (Super Blue and Typ 200) is the only brake fluid I've used in the Boss. I have never boiled it and it rarely even darkens after track events. I do put some heat into my brakes so I've tested it pretty well. Es ist sehr gut! ;D

1) it has the lowest boiling temps of any major DOT 4 fluid.
2) Pros don't use it because of the above
3) Super Blue importing has been requested to cease by the FTC
 
PeteInCT said:
1) it has the lowest boiling temps of any major DOT 4 fluid.
2) Pros don't use it because of the above
3) Super Blue importing has been requested to cease by the FTC
C'mon man that's simply because the US requires all brake fluids to be clear or amber in color, nothing to do with the fluid's ability to avoid boiling ;) Type 200 and Super Blue are the exact same fluid without the blue dye, and they weren't required to stop importing Type 200.

I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with ATE fluid. Sure you can buy better, just like you can buy $1200 wheels, $5000 big brake kits, full roll cage etc. As long as it's kept fresh with regular bleeding, it's not a bad fluid in my experience. I have boiled Brembo LCF600 and it has a higher boiling point than ATE. Since I've never had any issues with ATE I feel comfortable using it.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
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Connecticut
for me the higher boiling temps are well worth a small differential in the price. As for why they are banning it, you're right, but my point is it won't be available for very long.
 
PeteInCT said:
for me the higher boiling temps are well worth a small differential in the price. As for why they are banning it, you're right, but my point is it won't be available for very long.
Yea it all comes down to confidence with brakes and every individual is a little different it seems. For me I've found my combination of pads and fluids haven't left me with a pedal to the floor. Having experienced that feeling in the past, I'm reluctant to change what has been working for me.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
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4,008
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Cookeville TN
cloud9 said:
Yea it all comes down to confidence with brakes and every individual is a little different it seems. For me I've found my combination of pads and fluids haven't left me with a pedal to the floor. Having experienced that feeling in the past, I'm reluctant to change what has been working for me.

Can't argue with what works. I do like the SRF over the ATE and Motul. Seems to hold up longer and stay cleaner (less moisture absorption) than the others. All of them are superior grade fluids though.
Steve
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
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steveespo said:
Can't argue with what works. I do like the SRF over the ATE and Motul. Seems to hold up longer and stay cleaner (less moisture absorption) than the others. All of them are superior grade fluids though.
Steve

Agreed. I use the SRF most of time. If I have too much Motul600 around I use it also, but you cant leave it in the system anywhere as long as SRF.

-Pete
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
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Srf is very cost effective. 6 events no bleeding. Ate blue was scary, two events then flush. Ate boiled at every event. All my buddies down here are switching to srf after seeing my braking results.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
 

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