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Sticking clutch with 7200rpm shift from 3rd to 4th

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steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
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Cookeville TN
2012YellowBoss said:
Adam
The MGW will help with the missed shifts like going into fifth instead of third. I had missed a few shifts here and there but have not with the new shifter. I don't think the factory shifter is a bad unit just not precise enough for the track.

I did find my last time out making a 5 to 3 shift is not a good way to go, even if I made the shift at lower RPM's. Now I will always downshift in order, even if that requires an extra heal/toe :(

When the time comes I will swap out the clutch for a race version. In the mean time I'm not racing and while it is annoying I still finish every track day. Seems the clutch and or trans is the weak like in an otherwise perfect track car.

I usually do a 5-3 downshift by dropping to neutral matching revs up and then shifting down to 3rd and again bring up the revs and let out the clutch. This is true double clutching and it is very smooth and Ifor reduces the amount of quick footwork and chances of a mistake in the braking zones.
Steve
 
First time I have ever tried doing a 5 to 3 was at Sebring last time out before the hairpin. May just be a beginner thing but I could not make it work smooth at all. I spoke with a few local racers and their recommendation was going to fourth then third. Seems like I would lose time at this spot because it is very fast and into a short braking zone but maybe not more then the fighting I did to get it into third gear. Something I will need to work out in time. Practice - practice :)

There are three other places down here where you go from 5 to 3, two of them are at the end of long straights (Sebring and PB) and they have long wide turns with plenty of space and time to go into fourth. The other is the bus stop at Daytona but if you get in there correctly you are only 15 MPH lower then max speed in third so I don't see the need for the shift.

I have seen a couple mentions of this whole shifter issue being the clutch. Makes sense if it is. However I talked to Dean at Rehagen awhile back and he told me the stock trans is junk. I believe they run the Exedy clutch, and did testing with that clutch and the stock trans and still had major issues.... I have been told by enough people and have seen enough posts to believe that there is an issue somewhere. I hope it is remedied by Ford....

I guess there is a reason they did not use the MT-82 in the S, R and the higher horsepower Shelby but then again after reading some boards it may just be a problem with a select few drivers ;)
 
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From what I know some race teams reported problems with the MT-82 and others didn't have any. Some think it's junk and others think it's fine.... ??? However I believe Ford went with the gt500 trans because it is the same one they used on the FR500. They tried to keep as many interchangeable parts so the teams that upgraded cars didn't have to go and purchase as many all new spares. Also I believe the gt500 trans is better geared for the track.

Regardless of all that I wish there were NO commonly reported problems so I don't have to worry about it....
 
adam81 said:
From what I know some race teams reported problems with the MT-82 and others didn't have any. Some think it's junk and others think it's fine.... ??? However I believe Ford went with the gt500 trans because it is the same one they used on the FR500. They tried to keep as many interchangeable parts so the teams that upgraded cars didn't have to go and purchase as many all new spares. Also I believe the gt500 trans is better geared for the track.

Regardless of all that I wish there were NO commonly reported problems so I don't have to worry about it....
Well ironically when I was at Track Attack driving an FR500S on the second day, 4th gear went out on mine. I lost about 1/2 a session swapping cars. When I talked to the tech afterward he said it was the second one that lost 4th gear that week. I'm having a hard time remembering, but for some reason I was thinking that was a 5 speed, but it was 6 months ago and my memory isn't what is used to be.
 
2012YellowBoss said:
First time I have ever tried doing a 5 to 3 was at Sebring last time out before the hairpin. May just be a beginner thing but I could not make it work smooth at all. I spoke with a few local racers and their recommendation was going to fourth then third. Seems like I would lose time at this spot because it is very fast and into a short braking zone but maybe not more then the fighting I did to get it into third gear. Something I will need to work out in time. Practice - practice :)
I have to drop from 5th to 3rd at BIR in Turn 3 and at MAM in Turn 1. I just row from 5th to 4th, then 3rd while in the braking zone and clutch depressed. Then just blip the throttle before turn in and get your revs matched for 3rd gear. This way you're really only shifting once, but you can get into 3rd easier and not miss the shift.
 
cloud9 said:
I have to drop from 5th to 3rd at BIR in Turn 3 and at MAM in Turn 1. I just row from 5th to 4th, then 3rd while in the braking zone and clutch depressed. Then just blip the throttle before turn in and get your revs matched for 3rd gear. This way you're really only shifting once, but you can get into 3rd easier and not miss the shift.

Thanks, maybe something to try. When I spoke of this to some local people they looked at me like I had two heads skipping the shift. It's good to know other had done this and it works. I do not think I was having a problem lining it up for the down shift but felt more like too many RPM's, even when I tried it toward the end of the brake zone. It felt just like the way I need to upshift into fifth, having to jam it into the gear. Sounds like something I will need to work on there, or should I say another thing to work on.
 
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cloud9 said:
adam81 said:
From what I know some race teams reported problems with the MT-82 and others didn't have any. Some think it's junk and others think it's fine.... ??? However I believe Ford went with the gt500 trans because it is the same one they used on the FR500. They tried to keep as many interchangeable parts so the teams that upgraded cars didn't have to go and purchase as many all new spares. Also I believe the gt500 trans is better geared for the track.

Regardless of all that I wish there were NO commonly reported problems so I don't have to worry about it....
Well ironically when I was at Track Attack driving an FR500S on the second day, 4th gear went out on mine. I lost about 1/2 a session swapping cars. When I talked to the tech afterward he said it was the second one that lost 4th gear that week. I'm having a hard time remembering, but for some reason I was thinking that was a 5 speed, but it was 6 months ago and my memory isn't what is used to be.

I had the same issue on my second day, at miller in 3rd on a standard GT. then I couldn't get in any gear. I was stuck for a min on the end of the long straight. I too lost more than half of my session. :(
 
HackBoss302 said:
2012YellowBoss said:
That is what I tend to think but the guys that build these cars know a million times more then me on how they work. I hate to say things and look stupid later but this seems to be a case of bean-counters looking for a quick cheap fix to quiet the masses???

When it happened to me the second time I knew what was going on and quickly stuck my foot behind the pedal to lift it up, in the end it did not matter and only came up after the RPM's lowered. I have it on helmet cam tape!

Scott mine did the samething. Only after the rpms drop below 6k did I get the clutch back. Mine was on the street with the car warmed up. The outside temp was 50 so heat IMO was not the issue. I seem to think it is a pressure plate issue, but until Ford steps up a proper fix we will just have to wait and see or guess! I'll keep you guys posted.

Hack

btw no I don't Hack computers, just a 1st grade coach's nickname that stuck. If he only knew!

chris, that is exactly what mine does to the, but only on 3-4 shift. anyway, i just don't rev it out that high and it is fine. i talked to a shop owner that had that issue on a turbo 12 Gt at the drag strip, a clutch upgrade fixed it for them. my pedal always comes back after rpms drop and it isn't disengaged when it happens. never smelled burning clutch though. generally i can tell when it's about to act up, if i redline shift in the first two gears when its hotter out, the clutch will start to feel sloppy (slower release and spongy feel) on the 2-3 and then on 3-4 it sticks. Reminds me, did your brother trade the z06 to a boss?
 
New transmissions are expensive.


Unless you disagree with that statement, go through all the gears when driving hard. Per a discussion with my friend who has sold a lot of replacement transmissions at his race shop.
 
CaliMR said:
New transmissions are expensive.


Unless you disagree with that statement, go through all the gears when driving hard. Per a discussion with my friend who has sold a lot of replacement transmissions at his race shop.
You are correct. That is technically the proper way ;) Ultimately it also gives you the most engine braking as well.
 
It seems to only be some cars, and even then it is rare. IIRC OP said it happened twice. Mine shifts better the higher the RPMs are. I have the opposite, it will not engage 1st if the car is not moving sometimes.
 
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MA
I was playing with a friend is his tuned and geared 2011 5.0 auto once, and I experienced the 3-4 shift issue. The shifter simply would not go into gear above 7,200 rpm. The clutch pedal was slow to return once too, it stayed on the floor for a nano-second then came up. I attributed this to about 3-4 roll races in a row. I'm sure the clutch was getting super hot from repeated high rpm shifts. When its cool, its seems to go to 4th okay. But once it happens one time, you loose the confidence that it will happen again and become gun shy of attempting to shift out 3rd gear anymore, and that's one of the most important gear changes in drag racing as the momentum that is lost at those speeds on a slow and/or short shift kill ET and MPH.

I think Ford equipped all new 5.0's with a poor clutch design that intentionally slips a certain % in order to preserve the trans and driveline. A lot of guys who drag races their 5.0's put a nice twin disc in there and don't report of any problems with the tranny that I'm aware of. That seems to be the cure to the problem.
 
Clutches are cheaper than trannies. My last fun car had a rag clutch from the factory to save the TC from popping if people tried to drag race them. I can't speak for this clutch other than street use so far, but it has been fine other than not being as progressive as the GT.

Anyone else think the 2-3 shift is wonky? It seems like they kept 2 short to maximize 0-60 but then left too big a spread between 2 and 3 so 3 is not really in the meat of the power range after a shift. Hills here are 2-3-2 a lot so it is pretty noticeable. If 2 got another 10 mph it would be ideal at least for where I live.
 
ihatepotholess said:
Does this problem happen to a lot of Boss or just a couple of cases? I have yet to redline my car, I'm a little paranoid now.
I don't have numbers on how many Bosses this happen too, but it's too many to be driver error IMO.

BTW gang, I'm not able to get to the dealer this week after all. Looks like it will be after ECR after all.
 
chris, that is exactly what mine does to the, but only on 3-4 shift. anyway, i just don't rev it out that high and it is fine. i talked to a shop owner that had that issue on a turbo 12 Gt at the drag strip, a clutch upgrade fixed it for them. my pedal always comes back after rpms drop and it isn't disengaged when it happens. never smelled burning clutch though. generally i can tell when it's about to act up, if i redline shift in the first two gears when its hotter out, the clutch will start to feel sloppy (slower release and spongy feel) on the 2-3 and then on 3-4 it sticks. Reminds me, did your brother trade the z06 to a boss?
[/quote]

Shane, no Paul hasn't traded the Z06 so looks like we'll get to pick on at least one Chevy. He's been to a few schools so it will not be easy by any means!
 
My 1st has popped maybe a dozen times now, at 450ish miles.


Does anybody know if there is a restrictor pill in the clutch lines or anything else that might be the culprit? My old car had a pill, removing it made things much better.
 
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CaliMR said:
My 1st has popped maybe a dozen times now, at 450ish miles.


Does anybody know if there is a restrictor pill in the clutch lines or anything else that might be the culprit? My old car had a pill, removing it made things much better.

I'd have them "note" that when you get your Track Key programmed. Mine hasn't popped out once in 10,000 miles. It also shifts great when warm at redline. Clutch never stays down. The only thing that resembles a problem with 1st is once in a while downshifting into i1st it isn't perfectly smooth. I hardly ever want to downshift to 1st and when I do 99% of the time it's fine. I haven't tracked it hard on a hot day, just once on a 60* day at Laguna Seca.
 

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