Suspension changes advice needed

[blacksheep-1]

Kind of thinking of it, have you ever seen someone set up a dirt sprint car?
They find a level spot, the add or subtract a number of measured blocks under the car is a prescribed area. This way they raise, lower ride height, adjust suspension and whatever, without using scales at all.
So, the way I would do this, is to pay someone to scale the car, while it's on the plate, take misc measurements, front. rear, side,,,etc and mark those spots on the car. grab some wood blocks and cut them to fit (make it a decent type of wood, and not pressure treated so it won't shrink) carve up some blocks with handles on them. You could even figure in the width of your level so once the car is level, you could actually do it in your back yard. Once the car is level, just slide the appropriate block under the car where it fits.
These guys make jigs for everything, wing angle...etc etc, these fit under the tires once you establish chassis height.

The expensive version
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Shop/Chassis-and-Suspension-Chassis-Set-Up-Blocks/12.html

we can learn a lot from these guys
http://www.jandjautoracing.com/cms/uploads/forms/chassis_adj_guide.pdf

 

[Grant 302]

Hmm, now I am a little confused... I though you guys did not run with a lower lca bracket??

FWIW we've run over 5 degrees on our PWC car, we had to hog out the shock mount holes to do it. It wasn't permitted in IMSA, or the SCCA.

Rob, I'm confused too. Are you talking about camber up front here?

Hmm,,. forgot to take into account the slight angle on the Drive way . Measuring again on level ground, the LCA angle went from 6.6 to 3 degrees. Maybe I will raise the rear a tad more at the track to get closer to 4 degrees

I'd just try the 3º. If you really wanted 4º...I'd go back to the lower hole and drop the rear more, unless that's creating a clearance problem.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I'll give 3 degrees on the LCA a try and see what happens. With the Coil overs and the small tires I have lots of space for any option,

Taking all my tools!

 

[blacksheep-1]

Yes we run camber up front, if we can, a ton of it...you haven't lived until you see AJ or Kurt climb on the front fender with a grinder or sawzall.
When he was talking about the degrees in the lower control arm I naturally assumed he was talking about the front LCA, since we don't do much with the rears


I see what you mean though, degrees of angle on the rear LCA vs camber on front, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Ok!! The world has stopped spinning! I have just under 3 degrees camber with my 295/30-1 tires on . I will leave the rear LCA at 3 degrees for now.


I need to get the toe measuring gear together and use my accuremote angle tool to play with the camber at the track.

 

[Fabman]

Ok!! The world has stopped spinning! I have just under 3 degrees camber with my 295/30-1 tires on . I will leave the rear LCA at 3 degrees for now.


I need to get the toe measuring gear together and use my accuremote angle tool to play with the camber at the track.

-3.5* camber here w/295-R7's.

 

[Grant 302]

Yes we run camber up front, if we can, a ton of it...you haven't lived until you see AJ or Kurt climb on the front fender with a grinder or sawzall.
When he was talking about the degrees in the lower control arm I naturally assumed he was talking about the front LCA, since we don't do much with the rears


I see what you mean though, degrees of angle on the rear LCA vs camber on front, sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for clearing that up! I started imagining siamese-ing the rear LCA mount holes... Figured that wasn't what you meant. ;D

 

[Mad Hatter]

I am pretty much topped out at just shy of 3 deg camber with my Cortex offset coilovers.... And thats with space cut out of the top of the shock tower...

 

[Fabman]

I am pretty much topped out at just shy of 3 deg camber with my Cortex offset coilovers.... And thats with space cut out of the top of the shock tower...

You can slot the ears of the strut mounting where it bolts to the spindle 1/16" to get the rest. Just the top hole is enough. I have 3.5* and was able to re center my camber plates so there's plenty of adjustment left instead of being maxed out. It's basically like using camber bolts but using the stock hardware.


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[Mad Hatter]

Great! I will try that after this weekend.

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[zajac]

It looks like 3 deg is easily attainable.

Fabman said "re-center my camber plates"

I am not sure I understand what you mean my re-centering? Perhaps the brand of camber plates make a difference?

I run Ground Control camber plates and the problem I have is that the camber plates contact the inner shock tower sheet metal when trying to gain max camber. The shock tower hole has been already opened up for clearance to strut shaft/nut/adjuster). I had to grind off some of the Ground Control camber plates to get more clearance/space before contacting inner shock tower sheet metal.

2007 Saleen Parneli Jones Edition Mustang

 

[Fabman]

It looks like 3 deg is easily attainable.

Fabman said "re-center my camber plates"

I am not sure I understand what you mean my re-centering? Perhaps the brand of camber plates make a difference?

I run Ground Control camber plates and the problem I have is that the camber plates contact the inner shock tower sheet metal when trying to gain max camber. The shock tower hole has been already opened up for clearance to strut shaft/nut/adjuster). I had to grind off some of the Ground Control camber plates to get more clearance/space before contacting inner shock tower sheet metal.

2007 Saleen Parneli Jones Edition Mustang

When you slot the holes it give you a bunch of -camber so you can take camber out of the plates.


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[Mad Hatter]

Arrived at the track mid day in time for two track sessions. I went out with my street tires (PSS) to see how the suspension was, liked it very much car, felt balanced and more stable in braking with the tail a little more controlled.

Next day I put on the new R7's, that was a whole new world. The car transformed completely and I lowered my time 1.6 seconds from the previous time with Semis. Every time I went out I went down a few tenths. I was fighting for second place with a Factory race E46 Bimmer with 1215kilos with sequential box etc. He was leading by 0.5s so for the last round I switched out the sway bar to the 18mm one (Just got it on as they called my name, hectic!) The car felt great but the air temp by then was 85F so I only improved by 0.03 seconds.

I think I need to get used to the R7's first before I can comprehend all the changes. I can see that once you try slicks their is no going back. Hooked!

Finally have a weight scale at the track, I weighed in at 3410lbs with 1/4 tank of gas and no driver (that would be 187 lbs more). Is that about normal for a Boss? Seemed kind of light. With race seat and all the easy to remove items were out. But with MM roll bar.

 

[blacksheep-1]

FWIW these are actually called"trailing arms" not control arms, control arms refer generally to the front of the car, where the trailing arms started becoming control arm, is beyond me, Probably part of the dumbing down of America.
That would solve a lot of the confusion.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Got it! Trailing arms sounds much more accurate, lets call them LTA's instead of LCA's!! Nothing like using the right words to make thinks clearer to all.

 

[Grant 302]

FWIW these are actually called"trailing arms" not control arms, control arms refer generally to the front of the car, where the trailing arms started becoming control arm, is beyond me, Probably part of the dumbing down of America.
That would solve a lot of the confusion.

I get your point...trouble is they *are* all control arms. Most of the mustang rears are *also* trailing arms. IRS Mustangs, not so much. They've had 'A', 'camber', and most recently 'H' control arms in the rear of the S550.

Getting *really* technical, they shouldn't even be called trailing 'arms' but trailing 'links' since they are only 2 point connections.

We say '3 link' and '4 link' rear suspensions but the panhard bar is really a 4th link too, right?

But I digress...

Right or wrong, sometimes it's hard to change conventional terms.