Taking a Different Boss to the Track Friday

[ArizonaBOSS]

My PERSONAL experience with the NT01 is they were much more stable over a 20-minute session if they were coming in 37-38psi hot.
You really just have to pick a baseline cold pressure, and see how much you pick up over the course of a session, and then adjust. The car will start to get slippery once the temps and pressures get too high, so back down a couple psi until the car is sticking throughout the entire session.

There is no one "right" answer; it all has to do with car setup, weight, and driving style (oh, and let's not forget ambient temps and track surface temps! )

 

[Jza1736]

So who is right?

Whoever puts down the faster lap times ;D

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Also just for another (confusing?) reference point--my BMW racer friends who run Hoosier R80s on much lighter cars set their cold pressures around 24-25psi, and come off track hot around 30psi.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Still using the NT05's. I argued with with my old racer friend at the dealer as he told me I was way too high at 35 or even 33. It took me a while to get it in my head to start out that low but it is working. I have never run a set of tires and seen the even wear like pictured. Any higher and I beat them up. They stick very well, sometimes around high speed bends I still get understeer, like the infield at Homestead and Bishops Bend at Sebring but that is when I am pushing the top speed for street tires there.

When I do get the back end loose it is pilot error, getting on the gas too early or something like that. It is always out of turns not going in. People don't believe me how well you can make a set of 05's work and more then one person has been shocked to see what I am running in the pits. The only hard part was figuring out the pressures.

Here is the full data from Sebring. The morning started out in the high 50's with the concrete at 59 By mid-day temps in the low 70's - ground ?. I started at 22 and 23 rear PSI. I always get a higher inside temp but I think part of that is heat from the rotors.

O M I CHANGES MADE
LF 30.5 132 131 143
RF 30.5 124 127 131
NEW BREAK-IN REARS
LR 30.0 135 142 140
RR 30.5 123 131 135

SWAPPED OUT TIRES - SET 2

LF 28.5 134 129 138 <-----EDIT CORRECTED
RF 29.5 120 122 131
LR 28.0 116 116 120
RR 28.5 113 113 120

LF 30.0 137 140 14X -1
RF 30.5 128 122 130 -1
LR 28.0 122 122 123 +1
RR 29.0 116 126 128

LF 30.5 140 134 136
RF 30.5 132 134 143
LR 31.0 128 131 134
RR 30.0 128 130 133

LF 31.0 150 145 148
RF 32.0 144 142 148
LR 31.0 134 134 140
RR 30.0 132 134 140

as you can tell some runs the last lap people drove very slow on the last lap. Also I when I say 28-30 hot that is checking after coming in. I am guessing the pressure may be 30 to 33 on track.

 

[drano38]

Scott,
That's great info.
I'm giving NT-05s a shot too - ordered 8 of them this afternoon. ;D
Price is right, and gives me a couple bucks for other stuff.
I need to take my infrared thermometer to the track next time, and start logging data.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Scott,
That's great info.
I need to take my infrared thermometer to the track next time, and start logging data.

Thanks Wayne. I am going to bring the data to the gentlemen at my dealer tomorrow. He has been super helpful so far, like many here. You guys are can chime in on what you see there also.

Smitty, I am far from an expert and have not run the NT01's yet but if they are like the 05's in even a small way the lower pressure could help. When I lowered pressure the tires stuck 300% better. How is the wear looking after you run at that pressure?

If it helps the Grand Am guys said they were running the Continental (Hoosiers) at 30 PSI Hot. At least I think it was hot and need to ask again to make sure. (someone correct me if I am wrong)

 

[2012YellowBoss]

scuffed off the outer shoulders pretty good on 3 track days. May not have enough tire pressure.

and just to make one more point to confuse things, at higher pressure I wore the outside edges and the middle. As I lowered the pressure the outside wear stopped but still had some center wear. Then I got to a point too low (below 28 hot) and started to wear (roll) the outside edges again, mostly on the left side.

This is why we went with the new camber toe settings. For now it has stopped the wear in the center while being able to run as low as possible without rolling the sides over.

Wayne when you get the 05's look at the side wall, you will see arrows on the edges (little triangles). You need to see the wear band right at the tip of the arrow. If you run once too low you will scrub them right off, so start a little high (not too much) and lower as needed.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Here is the arrow, you can see that after 4 runs with the pressure around 30 I am still well above the wear mark. I still have room to reduce the pressure.

 

[drano38]

Scott,
Great info. That will help a lot when I get going with them.
UPS tracking shows 8 boxes due here Thursday--not that it matters since its snowing right now and on our way to zero on the temp . . .
Oh well, got the Boss washed tonight for its hibernation.

 

[adam81]

Here is the arrow, you can see that after 4 runs with the pressure around 30 I am still well above the wear mark. I still have room to reduce the pressure.

Yep, you're right on. Bring it down maybe half a pound and see how that is. My best experience for wear is when the edge is right at the tip of the triangle. In my little bit of experience doing this stuff I have just never heard of hot pressure that low.... Thanks for all the data. That is something I have been meaning to be better about in regards to tire temps..

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Scott, what tire pressure gauge are you using?

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Scott, what tire pressure gauge are you using?

Craftsman digital, works great. I have never seen it give me two different reading on the same tire, if it says 29.5 you can check it 20 times and each time it is 29.5.

I went to the dealer today and talked with the guy that has been helping me out. He took one look at the front tire I brought and it put a big smile on his face. He looked over the temps and pressure and was very happy.

Based on the readings, we will be reducing the pressure by about one pound all around, give or take a half for the different reading. When I get them straight I will be staying about one pound less in the rear then the front. He does not want me to make the 5-3 shock setting yet, been running 5-4. I guess his thinking is get the tires set up correct first then worry about changing other things later.

The dealer treats me great and there are people like this guy that have helped but the mechanics are not showing their best work as of late. I found a tool inside the car, no big deal but then I found a 14 inch breaker bar under the hood, not good. This is why I like doing my own wrenching. Anyway today I got under the car to check the rear leak. There was a huge puddle under the car from sitting since Sunday. Turns out all the the diff cover bolts were hand tight ?!?!? I have no idea why they would have taken the cover off, they replaced the clutch and I had them install the new driveshaft. Maybe he thought they were going to do a fluid change and loosened them, then later forgot? Need to have a talk with them tomorrow.

The only other thing that could have happened is the new driveshaft was putting so much power down it torqued the rear so much the bolts loosened but I find that hard to believe. Every single bolt was loose, just enough pressure to keep the cover in place. I had checked them after Daytona in Dec.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Wow. Even some free tools can't cover up that kind of poor workmanship

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Wow. Even some free tools can't cover up that kind of poor workmanship

I returned them today .........

 

[CaliMR]

Anyone tried just using a stiffer shifter bushing but not changing the shifter? A friend who worked on the OEM setup for the Mustangs said that is all I need, and he is almost always right about this type of thing, but wondering about other people's experience. Didn't find a thread specifically about the bushings, this is as close as I found.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Anyone tried just using a stiffer shifter bushing but not changing the shifter? A friend who worked on the OEM setup for the Mustangs said that is all I need, and he is almost always right about this type of thing, but wondering about other people's experience. Didn't find a thread specifically about the bushings, this is as close as I found.

I would try this before dropping any serious dough on a shifter, but TBH I think the stock shifter is fine.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Anyone tried just using a stiffer shifter bushing but not changing the shifter? A friend who worked on the OEM setup for the Mustangs said that is all I need, and he is almost always right about this type of thing, but wondering about other people's experience. Didn't find a thread specifically about the bushings, this is as close as I found.

I installed the Steeda shifter bracket just over a week ago. I've been waiting until I have driven more miles with the bracket but I'll start a thread about it in the next day or two. The bottom line is it didn't make a huge difference driving the car around town. I think under high torque conditions it will help. For example guys that are having trouble finding 5th or downshifts into 4th on track. My shifter is fine but after reading about the different brackets I was curious if it would make the shifter feel any different. There's a huge difference in the construction of the aftermarket brackets compared to the stock bracket. See below.

 

[CaliMR]

Mine does the thing where it feels misaligned when you go through the gears, but if you are going 3-4 4-3 (or whatever other 2 gears) repeatedly then it feels good. Bushings have helped in other cars, and I really don't want to go to a whole aftermarket shifter but it is going to get pretty annoying driving around town. Sometimes it doesn't want to go into 1st after a stop, it feels like it went in but it kicks back out. But it also only has 100 miles on it so it may settle down. My other car has 220k miles and dead syncros but it shifts like rubbery butter compared to this one lol

 

[MLM]

Mine does the thing where it feels misaligned when you go through the gears, but if you are going 3-4 4-3 (or whatever other 2 gears) repeatedly then it feels good. Bushings have helped in other cars, and I really don't want to go to a whole aftermarket shifter but it is going to get pretty annoying driving around town. Sometimes it doesn't want to go into 1st after a stop, it feels like it went in but it kicks back out. But it also only has 100 miles on it so it may settle down. My other car has 220k miles and dead syncros but it shifts like rubbery butter compared to this one lol

It shouldn't be doing that (kicking out). The gates are very close together, so that takes a little getting used to. Ford has a TSB to change to a different viscosity fluid to deal with notchiness in 2nd and 3rd especially when cold.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Mine does the thing where it feels misaligned when you go through the gears, but if you are going 3-4 4-3 (or whatever other 2 gears) repeatedly then it feels good. Bushings have helped in other cars, and I really don't want to go to a whole aftermarket shifter but it is going to get pretty annoying driving around town. Sometimes it doesn't want to go into 1st after a stop, it feels like it went in but it kicks back out. But it also only has 100 miles on it so it may settle down. My other car has 220k miles and dead syncros but it shifts like rubbery butter compared to this one lol

Mine shifts fine and I like it a lot. Originally it was notchy but at about 800 miles it started to loosen up. I now have almost 4,000 miles on it and it feels a lot better. My only real issue were some crunchies going into 2nd and 4th. That also got better with time. Try Redline MTL or the equivalent Royal Purple for a nice improvement in shifting especially when cold. Ford put a thicker oil in the tranny to quiet it down a bit. Their TSB is to install a thinner oil.