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I've been bleeding for lots of decades. I do not understand how the ford way works.

When replacing a master I have always bench bled the master before install. It can be done after install. Then 2 man bleed each brake corner and or bleed clutch. Clutch bleed is 4 rapid pumps and as the 4th pump starts the slave bleed is open then closed at the bottom of the 4th held at bottom stroke. Do that about 3x and 95% success. Some hard to bleed clutches need more gyrations including angling car to move the high point in a slave. Some Ferraris are better this way. If you have air at the master trying to suck the rear calipers that's a long way. Sucking or pushing at the master never gets my pedal as hard as 2 man on the pedal. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Btw I have diagnostic tools, service lift, 4 welders, all kinds of tools but do not own a motive bleeder.

The vacuum procedure is not used for the brakes - only the clutch. For the brakes, the pressure bleed is best, and the Motive bleeder is hard to beat for quality and value.

On this shared reservoir system, it can be confusing on which method and when - all the more reason to divorce the clutch master to its own reservoir.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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The vacuum procedure is not used for the brakes - only the clutch. For the brakes, the pressure bleed is best, and the Motive bleeder is hard to beat for quality and value.

On this shared reservoir system, it can be confusing on which method and when - all the more reason to divorce the clutch master to its own reservoir.
Know what, I'll just go ahead and do that tonight as well, might as well keep things simple.

20210218_140027.jpg
 
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When you say bench bleed, are you running hoses in the place of the ABS lines and routing them back through the top of the MC reservoir into some fluid, and then pumping the cylinder?

Yes that's how I do it. On the wife yeah you are lucky to get dinner. Don't push your luck.

Did you notice I said wife? I don't know if you are married but I assumed because a girlfriend will pump your clutch. That's code boys for "stay single"...
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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For some strange reason, I'm proud of shitty work.

Took some hard plastic tubing from the vacuum pump and put the heat gun to it while she held it clamped shut with needle nose pliars. Held it until it until it cooled, et voila, affairs de singe.

IMG_20210218_210936_300.jpg

Spoke about using the zipties to create a loop around the reservoir and thread it through the GM Clutch reservoir, and there you have it.

20210218_205449.jpg

The Clutch cable from the firewall is only about 9 inches long, but no complaints here, gets the job done.
Please tell me you guys read my white text shiznit.
Now off to go bleed some brakes and clutch after their not so messy divorce.

20210218_204025.jpg

Also, eew from the old reservoir, wondering if this is some gunk in my purge bottle left over from my last bleed or if that stuff was deeper down in the old reservoir. I'm inclined to believe the latter because of this picture.

20210218_212440.jpg


Yes that's how I do it. On the wife yeah you are lucky to get dinner. Don't push your luck.

Did you notice I said wife? I don't know if you are married but I assumed because a girlfriend will pump your clutch. That's code boys for "stay single"...
She can't stand any of this stuff, doesn't want to contribute to my early and untimely demise.

Also duhs to go out, didn't need to do any of the clutch pressure bleeding/vacuum, as I had only disconnected it from the reservoir and generally held it upright, so all of its pressure and fluid stayed intact. Whatever little bit had dripped out sure might cause a teensy bubble, but should be good. Drew correctly pointed out that the MC Reservoir is not pressurized. I had filled the reservoir with the black nipple on it, and that leaked. Ziptied it down harder, and it still leaked, and used the clear nipple that came with the GM Reservoir, and that did as well. The vacuum bleeder line worked out rather well as it was a very tight fit, and I don't think I'll be missing the 2 inches or so of tubing that I snipped off it. Makes a nice tight seal, and a struggle to take off, but ziptied it down just because.
 
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522
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but I've been getting nasty HOA letters once again, and so it's not in my best interest to do so with it being as ridiculously loud as it is.

View attachment 62722

😳 I just noticed what your HOA notice said - how dare they refer to the Mullet as “totaled”. We haven’t even got it on the track yet - seems a bit premature in their judgement. Guess we better spend some time tomorrow finalizing our T minus 70 days to Lucky Dog Willow Springs plans.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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😳 I just noticed what your HOA notice said - how dare they refer to the Mullet as “totaled”. We haven’t even got it on the track yet - seems a bit premature in their judgement. Guess we better spend some time tomorrow finalizing our T minus 70 days to Lucky Dog Willow Springs plans.
For what it's worth, upon receipt of that claim, I immediately walked out, took off the tarp of the totaled car, and gave it a good start and healthy set of revs, in addition to an open invitation to take the accusers for a shakedown run so we can test out the passenger seat restraints.

giphy.gif

I eagerly await their reply.

Just about to load up for Chuckwalla, curious to see how the splitter and ability to properly brake will do for my times there. I think it's only my 2nd time out, so hopefully sub 2, and would love mid 1:50's, but we'll see. Have to keep reminding myself that I'm on the 200tw Yoko's, and shouldn't try for all 20 minutes.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...

So, loading up the other afternoon, pulled it out of the garage to find zero brake pressure, knowing I had forgotten to do the bench bleed of the master cylinder... 🤬 Every pump would just push more air into the system. This was also right after I told the HOA that I never work on my cars outside of the garage, and that I'm never making noise past 6pm, and with it being like Saturday 5:30pm, had to rush. Tossed the Motive Power Bleeder on, give it a couple good pumps, and that nipple that I was patting myself on the back for? Yeah, just burst open and started firing fresh RBF 660 all over engine bay and recently cleaned garage floor. Superb.

I laughed, then quickly yanked off the new divorced reservoir to save some of that fluid. I was only using some generic DOT 4 Prestone in the clutch, which is some low capacity like 3oz anyhow. Knowing what the problem was, and that I had no real way of doing it and saving face, made the bold decision to just load it up on the trailer anyhow, grab a bench bleeding kit from a local part store, and leave early, doing it at the track before the first session. Left at 4am, gave a fellow Mustang owner a Police Escort up the mountain, and got to the track just after 7. First meeting was 7:30, so my 8am session just wasn't going to happen. Got the MC off, gave it a what I thought to be some good pumps to get the air, and put it back on. Had to run across the track to my student's car, and do his session, and after a quick download, then came back and finished bench bleeding the MC and shoved it back in. Got the car back up and tires off, and did a positive pressure bleed, tossed the tires on, and nothing but air still, full to the floor, 30mph stop took 10 seconds. Dammit, missed another session. Had to instruct again, ran across the track, hopped in, ran back across the track, and got it back up, tires off, and my friends jumped into action as a volunteer pit crew and helped out and after a 2 man it, we got a lot more air out. Despite cold brakes and tires from not yet going out, and thinking it'd be as mushy as it was from the previous lap around the pits, gave it a good punch and really wish I had harnessed up, because I put the steering wheel into my chest. Went out for the 3rd session at 2pm, temps weren't too bad (for the desert) and was very, very confident in the brakes for really the first time I've ever owned a s550 Mustang, as my 19 was also a base non-PP GT, holy moly, this thing f'n stops. 4th session I pulled a 1:58 out, and further improved on it in the bonus 5th session, despite not being able to see driving into the sun for about half of the session.




1614020525239.png

Since it was pretty much just Tom and I, that extra space was nice as it was only my 2nd time there, and I started playing with various approaches to some of the sections, Chuckwalla has some fun rhythm sections to it. Track Addict says if I get my shiznit together, a 1:56.8 would have been possible, which on 200TW Yokos would be amazing, but hard to believe. With all the good news, comes the bad. Just about everything I know is wrong -- I'll need to learn how to drive it all over again. Although, just a year in, perhaps I didn't even know to begin with. The brakes are just amazing, and so I'll have my hands tied with breaking my bad, bad habit of double-triple grenading the brakes, and to replace it with proper brake techniques maintain proper car and corner balance. That, and proper turn entrances, now that I can safely go to the outer edge instead of the car length or two I've been doing up until yesterday. Enough gushing, but it was a great feeling to end the day on a high note, even if it is just HPDE and the times don't really count for anything. I also got to douse @67GTA with water when he went sub 2 for the first time, I think everybody in our group had a PB, so yeah, it was a pretty good day. Maybe it was the resurfacing, maybe it was the driver, maybe it was a little of both, but a great time out for sure.

Back-to-Back Auto Club Speedways coming up in 3 weeks from now, so a little break in the action so I can figure out where in the hell I can get my hands on another set of 18x11 Apex EC-7's before May.
 
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Forgive me if this is obvious, but how exactly does divorcing the clutch fluid from the brake fluid improve your braking? Or was it the new MC you installed that really did the improvement?
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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tyvm, it's creeping closer and closer to completion, until I very likely blow it up and have to start over again.

Forgive me if this is obvious, but how exactly does divorcing the clutch fluid from the brake fluid improve your braking? Or was it the new MC you installed that really did the improvement?
Good question -- by itself, well, it doesn't. For my non-PP GT, the new Power Brake Booster and MC I had switched in kept up with my demand, I went extra hard in my sessions to ensure that they held solid from a whole run of thrashing... and they did. Now that they're solid and dependable, once divorced, it allows me to run something like Castrol SRF on the brake system, and not have to worry about it destroying parts of the clutch line as it's alleged to. I also don't have to then bleed out ~$25 of RBF after every event, so while the SRF cost is rather high, going a whole season will save me a few bucks in the long run.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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It's made by the guys who built my cage, Autopower Industries.

20210226_201223.jpg

Also got my 6 point harness and camlock from them. I dig 'em, nice, simple, and crash tested... by them, thankfully not me.
 
For those who say that they have done the 6 piston PP brake swap to their non-PP and it "works fine" either A) Doesn't track their car, B) Tracks their car, but not going fast or hard enough to lose their brakes, or C) Is simply copy-pasting what they saw on some other internet forum. The base GT non-PP MC is used on the Shelby GT350, but their larger rotors also have 38, 36, and 34mm caliper pistons, whereas the PP is an even 36, 36, 36 piston. Not having driven it yet, I'd figure that the additional 1.5m (7%) larger bore (23.5 vs 22) should do, or rather me having an inadequate smaller system was the source of my problems all along.
What brake pads did you use?
 
Hi! I noticed you mentioned MBRP exhaust in the early part of your build thread. I saw a similar exhaust on 4WheelOnline and had to ask if it's worth it. I haven't used it so I'm curious. You said it sounds good down low. Do you still have it in your car?
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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Hi! I noticed you mentioned MBRP exhaust in the early part of your build thread. I saw a similar exhaust on 4WheelOnline and had to ask if it's worth it. I haven't used it so I'm curious. You said it sounds good down low. Do you still have it in your car?
Depends on what you're looking for. I didn't choose it, as it was already on the car when I acquired it. This is the 3" Pro Race version, which has an offroad H-pipe, and instead of a muffler, has something of a boom tube which only makes the exhaust louder and angrier. I dig it, generally the loudest car on the track, but wish it'd be a touch quieter when I'm trying to un/load the car because the neighbors hate it, and so I have to do those things during daylight hours. I still have it in my car for now, but I've been considering either taking it off and selling the whole thing, or switching another set of axle-backs in as I have a real hard time finding enough room for this rear diffuser I want to put in. I really don't want to cutout or shave the diffuser down, but something's gonna have to give.
 
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sfo
Depends on what you're looking for. I didn't choose it, as it was already on the car when I acquired it. This is the 3" Pro Race version, which has an offroad H-pipe, and instead of a muffler, has something of a boom tube which only makes the exhaust louder and angrier. I dig it, generally the loudest car on the track, but wish it'd be a touch quieter when I'm trying to un/load the car because the neighbors hate it, and so I have to do those things during daylight hours. I still have it in my car for now, but I've been considering either taking it off and selling the whole thing, or switching another set of axle-backs in as I have a real hard time finding enough room for this rear diffuser I want to put in. I really don't want to cutout or shave the diffuser down, but something's gonna have to give.

Well I'm still running a stock exhaust with the cats gutted and my car is just barely louder than stock. I like it because I can run the car at all hours because often we need to so we can move it or test something or just change the oil and get oil into the filters so we can check the new level. But I need LOUD! My reason is the stupidest ever. I'm racing the A10. Both Flyhalf and I agree that the shifts are just too smooth. We are concentrating on going fast not on the tiny gear number on the dash. I'm hoping that I can hear the shift with a loud exhaust. Not knowing what gear I am in is a real PITA. So if you are selling it sounds like what I need and I'm just north of you in LA county.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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Well I'm still running a stock exhaust with the cats gutted and my car is just barely louder than stock. I like it because I can run the car at all hours because often we need to so we can move it or test something or just change the oil and get oil into the filters so we can check the new level. But I need LOUD! My reason is the stupidest ever. I'm racing the A10. Both Flyhalf and I agree that the shifts are just too smooth. We are concentrating on going fast not on the tiny gear number on the dash. I'm hoping that I can hear the shift with a loud exhaust. Not knowing what gear I am in is a real PITA. So if you are selling it sounds like what I need and I'm just north of you in LA county.
Heh, well, if you're at ACS on one of the two weekends, you'll most certainly hear me if it'll be of any help to help with your purchase decision. MBRP doesn't give me any commission, but they f'n should. But yeah, let's talk. I'm planning on doing a side exit probably during the summer break, so could work some time out to get it to you.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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Long overdue update.

Went to ACS two weekends in a row, even the U-Haul guys were like, "uh, I'm calling to confirm your auto transport reservation for the auto transport you just returned an hour ago?"

Coming off a high from Chuckwalla where the braking was actually working, we were greeted on Saturday by a hard Friday and early Saturday rain. It was dryish in time for the first session, but there was a big pond in the playground portion of the track at the very end. Went from very excited and I think I'll pull a PB out with this cool weather to, oh... it's going to be one of these days again. In all of my years of racing (2), I have never received a mechanical meatball... until today.

IMG_20210313_091023_251.jpg20210313_161722.jpg

Took just one session to destroy it. Pulled it off, and went about my day, back to driving without a front splitter. Still put down some alright times, considering these tires had seen WSIR, Chuckwalla, and now ACS.

Running in the Speed Ventures Red group, instead of the usual Corvette and Camaros, I was surrounded by McLaren, Porsche GT Cups, and coolest yet, authentic 90s NASCAR. These guys have a special group where like a dog show, they need papers, and so putting some laps in with Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin's cars was... just something else. Grew up watching some of these on TV, and here I am, in my mess of a project, on a NASCAR track, chasing them down on a 14 degree banked turn. Just wild. We had some dingus bust his stuff up so, like a real NASCAR race, somebody wrecked.


@67GTA was kind enough to lend me some garage time in exchange for babysitting, and thanks to some other fellows having a splitter disaster the week before, we set out to duplicate their efforts, kinda.

IMG_20210313_215048_952.jpg

Was too tired, so didn't end up finishing it that night, and kinda ran out of time in the morning too, so did another day on the now balding A052's.

On their bald 17th heat cycle they went 1:49.0, and on their 18th, I and they went 360ing off turn 6, just nothing left. Pulling a PB on bald tires had me going more positive into the big NASA weekend because I had a little sumtin' sumtin' coming its way for the NASA weekend.

IMG_20210317_181752_081.jpg

Had some other things distract me during the week, minor setbacks, mismeasurements, etc, and including a busted stud on a rear hub, so I had to fly up and grab one on Friday, and just barely missed tech with Tom's help, those hard to reach were less hard to reach, but with that passed tech.

20210319_202126.jpg20210319_185228.jpg


Mar-20-2021-Nasa (Sat)-Time Trial-Session 2 (Turn 9)-AC5_0988_Mar2021_1206PM_CaliPhoto.jpg

Happy Mustang is happy! Pulled a 1:47.7 on the A7's, which I was pretty happy about, but really wanted to finish that splitter off, and with Ale helping and lending some of his experiences as well, nothing a few trips back to Home Depot that night couldn't fix up.

20210320_000428.jpg

Could I have run it Saturday, probably. The fear of being too long and catching an undroppable DQ scared me away, and trying to keep the changes to a minimum, I know better who was responsible for what.

IMG_20210322_075055_009.jpg

Sunday, put on the splitter, finally, and went out for the first run of the rest of my life, the splitter totally worked, and ended up dropping another second, now looking at 1:46.7 and that bumped me to 7th overall, 3rd in TT2, which is where I ended up for the weekend as well. I could brake, the car was balanced, and gave me confidence to throw it harder in the turns, compared to the ice skating it was before. Got some more help from Will who stopped by to help solidify the air from sneaking underneath. Things are super competitive in TT2, so I'll need all the help I can get with two mustangs going against a Viper and Camaro both with plenty of power. Next stop, Buttonwillow.

Here's Sunday's first run where I saved a spin and a tablet.
 
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Ludachris

Chris
Staff member
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1,112
1,088
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5-10 Years
Newcastle, CA
Long overdue update.

Went to ACS two weekends in a row, even the U-Haul guys were like, "uh, I'm calling to confirm your auto transport reservation for the auto transport you just returned an hour ago?"

Coming off a high from Chuckwalla where the braking was actually working, we were greeted on Saturday by a hard Friday and early Saturday rain. It was dryish in time for the first session, but there was a big pond in the playground portion of the track at the very end. Went from very excited and I think I'll pull a PB out with this cool weather to, oh... it's going to be one of these days again. In all of my years of racing (2), I have never received a mechanical meatball... until today.

View attachment 63729View attachment 63730

Took just one session to destroy it. Pulled it off, and went about my day, back to driving without a front splitter. Still put down some alright times, considering these tires had seen WSIR, Chuckwalla, and now ACS.

Running in the Speed Ventures Red group, instead of the usual Corvette and Camaros, I was surrounded by McLaren, Porsche GT Cups, and coolest yet, authentic 90s NASCAR. These guys have a special group where like a dog show, they need papers, and so putting some laps in with Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin's cars was... just something else. Grew up watching some of these on TV, and here I am, in my mess of a project, on a NASCAR track, chasing them down on a 14 degree banked turn. Just wild. We had some dingus bust his stuff up so, like a real NASCAR race, somebody wrecked.


@67GTA was kind enough to lend me some garage time in exchange for babysitting, and thanks to some other fellows having a splitter disaster the week before, we set out to duplicate their efforts, kinda.

Was too tired, so didn't end up finishing it that night, and kinda ran out of time in the morning too, so did another day on the now balding A052's.

On their bald 17th heat cycle they went 1:49.0, and on their 18th, I and they went 360ing off turn 6, just nothing left. Pulling a PB on bald tires had me going more positive into the big NASA weekend because I had a little sumtin' sumtin' coming its way for the NASA weekend.

View attachment 63732

Had some other things distract me during the week, minor setbacks, mismeasurements, etc, and including a busted stud on a rear hub, so I had to fly up and grab one on Friday, and just barely missed tech with Tom's help, those hard to reach were less hard to reach, but with that passed tech.

View attachment 63733

Happy Mustang is happy! Pulled a 1:47.7 on the A7's, which I was pretty happy about, but really wanted to finish that splitter off, and with Ale helping and lending some of his experiences as well, nothing a few trips back to Home Depot that night couldn't fix up.

View attachment 63734

Splitter totally worked, and ended up dropping another second, now looking at 1:46.7 and that bumped me to 7th overall, 3rd in TT2, which is where I ended up for the weekend as well. Super competitive in TT2, two mustangs going against a Viper and Camaro both with plenty of power. Next stop, Buttonwillow.

Here's Sunday's first run where I saved a spin and a tablet.
That sounded like one hell of an adventure. :) That Speed Ventures Red group must have been pretty fun to run with. I probably would have been a little timid with all the super high dollar machines out there, but man that would have been cool.
 

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