S550 The Albuquerque Stripper - Mustang Nosegrind 720 Kickflip Champion Build Thread Profile - S550 Mustangs

[flyhalf]

Can't wait to see your stripper saturday Pat.
Fyi
I did on NASA official Dyno 481 whp with HOOD DOWN( it ested at sonoma when i crashed so the hood was bolted to the splitter to hold it haha)
On e85 CAI. And cat back. Your long tubes should give you an extra push!
I'm curious to see the splitter data. Are you planning to run it "attached " to the actual one or you will drop it and put an airdam?

 

[PaddyPrix]

Good luck out there! I'll be in your neck of the woods starting mid-summer so hopefully I can...uh...catch up with you at Willow Springs some time!

That's awesome. If you haven't lived out this way before, we have something of a summer break as our tracks are in the desert, temps well into the hundreds until October or so. I know there are a bunch of us hiding out, perhaps we can come up with some guys weekends and do custom car crap for beer and pizza, or whoop up on kids at the indoor kart tracks

Can't wait to see your stripper saturday Pat.
Fyi
I did on NASA official Dyno 481 whp with HOOD DOWN( it ested at sonoma when i crashed so the hood was bolted to the splitter to hold it haha)
On e85 CAI. And cat back. Your long tubes should give you an extra push!
I'm curious to see the splitter data. Are you planning to run it "attached " to the actual one or you will drop it and put an airdam?

Thanks a bunch, man. Still got a bunch of driver mod left in my build, certainly quite a lot to catch up with the likes of you, perhaps I can tailgate my way to a sub 1:30. Should be a good weekend, forecast showing highs in the mid 50s with 30% or so chance of rain, so a nice cool day should put some fast times down. Also looking at the registration shows 10 currently registered for ST2, which is a nice and welcome sight. The end goal is to get this into w2w one of these days, and having 10 is a sign that things are coming back, covid or not... would hate to do all this work and risks to race with just 2 people.

The dyno guys suggested I show up on street tires because r compounds and slicks just spin on the dyno, which I guess makes sense. However, I don't know how many of their customers properly warm them up to temp before hitting the rollers either. I've been disappointed by it before, but I'd like to think 475rwhp is do-able, considering these come at about 415-420 rwhp stock, and 50rwhp isn't too far fetched for e85 and longtubes. I'll do a hood up and hood down

For this v1, thinking just basic connectivity, and as long as it can stay attached to the car for the event is a check in my book. Looking through some of the aftermarket ones, I find it hard to believe how many of them just bolt into the stock bumper, even for the support rods. v2 should be a lot different though, and a summer project as I still have the K-member to swap. It came without the radiator support arms, so it's not a direct swap, and provides an opportunity to slant the radiator for some sort of waterfall design. Haven't yet put much thought into it just yet, but early idea is to close off the upper grille, suck everything from the lower, fully box the radiator, and either smoothly seal off the turn signals, or direct those into brake ducts from what either you or Dan played with when I was unloading the last time out. Going to have to find a bunch more cardboard over the next few months to make that happen

 

[steeda5]

You have got a lot stuff done on this car in a year! By far one of the coolest builds on TMO. Good to see you out beating on it on the regular like it owes you money or its a hooker from TJ. Calm down PC police. JK,JK .

 

[PaddyPrix]

So this likely isn't news who put up with my FB/IG verbal diarrhea, but I loaded up and on semi-shortish notice, and got my dyno pulls, which came out to 466/430. I guess all you dynos look alike, but this place also has their dynojet against the wall, which with my car being as loud as it was, woke up half of Lake Elsinore. Sorry, honest.

http://instagr.am/p/CLM4BlbgWG9/
I've been told by several people that it reads low, and has been consistently that way, but that's alright, we did some data logging, and for a simple mail order tune, e85, and long tubes, I'm still amazed that it works as well as it does. Of course we could further work on the tune and eek the next few here and there, but I've got more things that I need to do first (like, learn to drive) before I can even consider my car and its power a handicap or limitation, it's not.

After loading it back on, headed up to the track, got stuck in some of the usual LA traffic, and wanted to get the brand new Yoko's on the track for their virgin heat cycles, as unfortunately to get them in time, I had ordered them somebody that didn't offer heat cycling services. In some running and doing forms, and tech inspections, I wasn't through in time to get the Test n' Tune lap in, so, boo-hoo.



Went back to camp, and started putting the finishing touches on the splitter for the morning, which took me most of went on a little longer since I did it in the darkness and windy and near freezing temps. I also realized that I left my numbers at home, and didn't have a class designation, so last minute run to grab some vinyl and yet another DIY project at the hands of this idiot.


If you see this at a Southern California track event, feel free to help yourself to a covid-free donut. Really.


For for the basic v1 splitter, I have it mainly attached to the bumper's lower lip, some longer ones go both through the lip and to the bumper itself, and there are longer 4"ers going into the radiator support arms, and some more splitter rods which hold it alright. Places a lot of stress on the bumper itself, but I've placed so many and varied them that it should hold me up without much issue, but I didn't want to stand on it should it go poorly and sabotage my weekend, but yeah, I think it'll hold, and I'm about 200#. The numbers look as bad as you think I'd make them, but I was doing it with a decently dull box cutter that didn't do me any favors.

Those eagle-eyed amongst you might notice it says TT1 instead of TT2, because it was pretty much that cool guy and I, but with TT1 being stocked, there's a chance at getting some contingencies should somebody have a great day, so why not. First session came at 8:40 and it was suuuuper windy out, 30-35mph just like it was at ACS a few weekends before it. At the time, I recall it being a headwind, and when you combine that with the 40 degree track, everybody put up shitty numbers 5-8 seconds from better sessions. I wasn't impressed with my 1:36, but the tires were also pretty much fresh, and I was guessing on their happy pressure, going out at 26 cold.

Huge and noticeable change from the Super GT Cup event, which I was running with pretty much a front bumper and no splitter or undertray, 2nd session I pulled out a 1:30.1. I think these were liking the 1# per 100 method, but the big difference is that the Toyo RR I was running for most of the 20 minute sessions, and noticed that these Yoko's get up to temp pretty quickly, but don't have more than 3-5 laps in them before they go over temp. The stupid starter reared its ugly head again, went to talk to a buddy after the 2nd session and couldn't start the car again. Flywheel seems to be just fine, which is nice. I guess I'l just JB weld the starter in and deal with it later. 3rd session couldn't get a clean lap in with constant bumping into slower traffic, pulled a 1:30.8 out before getting wise and leaving before I could make things worse. My 1:30.1 put me high up on the grid, I think 6th, and with some people packing up, the 4th session was my best, as the wind died down slightly, and I was on the heels of some of those fast guys. Did my best to preserve tire for the first few laps and rolled in it, getting a 1:30.2, and a 1:29.8, finally breaking into the sub club, which wasn't a goal, but definitely a big accomplishment for me and this, so far, anyhow. I picked some people up on that next lap, but I've got a better feeling at the top of the course which has me thinking I can pull some more out tomorrow.

 

[bob]

wish I knew you were at wsir with NASA. I was there all day Friday helping another group at the balcomy. I would have liked to meet you and the stripper.

 

[flyhalf]

wish I knew you were at wsir with NASA. I was there all day Friday helping another group at the balcomy. I would have liked to meet you and the stripper.

Nooo we miss you!
I was there friday at 3pm. Left yesterday night

 

[bob]

Nooo we miss you!
I was there friday at 3pm. Left yesterday night

Bummer! I was helping to teach a skills class. If you saw a red Ferrari maranello go by in the paddock that was me. It is rare I'm at an event outside SCCA. But I need to do some testing so....maybe a speed venture event

 

[PaddyPrix]

Today was alright, I guess. Tried chasing my braking issue that I've had for the past year, and I'm now confident that it's the Base GT's master cylinder when you upgrade to the 6 piston PP Brembos. Really getting tired of the constant double and triple pump just to stop in time for the turn, which lead to my inconsistent entry, either over-braking or missing apexes. I had bled them before leaving home, almost a full flush of Motul RBF660, brand new G-LOC R18's, and the recently rebuilt cylinder dust boots. I had forgotten my power bleeder at home, so had the fellow next to me pump, and had an air bubble on the inner caliper of both fronts. I at the time, suspected that perhaps I couldn't see it in the yellowed line to the catch can, and let it go for the time being, and yeah, brakes sucked. 3rd session, had my new buddy across from me help pump, and we at least did the inner front caliper bleeds so fluid came out, and I had much more confidence in them. So much more that I just hammered it and took another chunk off, now 1:29.5. That tight braking performance started to go back to the spongy pedal, and shitty part is that I lost it on my cooldown lap heading to 1, so I had to frantically pump to get anything, and drifted/kicked it around, but couldn't fully recover an angle that high, so tank slapper'd it around and off which means that all times for that session were forfeited. That 1:29.5 would have been good for 3rd, but oh well. 4th session was short, the race before had a red flag, and eventually got cancelled because somebody went off in 4a, kicking up rocks. Somebody on the first hot lap exited 2 too hot, and tried to save it, kicking rocks all on there, and another lost theirs on the approach of 8, so with the course filled with rocks on entry or apex, yeah, I wasn't going to get my chance to further improve or redeem myself. I should have the pp2 master cylinder and reservoir in for this weekend, which mean I might get to see this cool braking and pedal modulation thing that everybody's been talking about for so long.

Bummer! I was helping to teach a skills class. If you saw a red Ferrari maranello go by in the paddock that was me. It is rare I'm at an event outside SCCA. But I need to do some testing so....maybe a speed venture event

Haha, that's exactly what I thought when I saw you when I was walking the pits with my Ronald McDonald wig, thinking, who in the hell brings a Ferrari to a NASA event... and then, how competitive it'd be, and what class it'd be in

I'll be doing ACS twice in March with SV and then NASA at the end of the month, so if you're at either of those, catch you there. If not, surely something before the summer break.

 

[bob]

Pat,

I need a hand doing testing like hot pressures and tire temps. Maybe we can do an SV event in different groups like red green open pass group and we can help work out each other’s bugs.

I need to test for Hoosier A7 target tire temps and pressures On the s550 but really need to do that on road course like BRP. The ACS roval is a different pressure with all that time in the oval.

I assume you have abs. Is it possible you have air there? Have you at least tired to slam brakes say on a misty slick morning to activate the abs and help move fluid in the abs valves To try and purge air? Is the pp1 master with bigger brembo s a different part number from non big brake cars? If yes you need to match master with calipers. If no you still have air in the system.

masters throw a certain volume of fluid and the caliper piston sizes are matched to that. That’s how the same aftermarkey caliper can be used on a vette and a camaro by changing the piston sizes in the calipers.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Pat,

I need a hand doing testing like hot pressures and tire temps. Maybe we can do an SV event in different groups like red green open pass group and we can help work out each other’s bugs.

I need to test for Hoosier A7 target tire temps and pressures On the s550 but really need to do that on road course like BRP. The ACS roval is a different pressure with all that time in the oval.

I assume you have abs. Is it possible you have air there? Have you at least tired to slam brakes say on a misty slick morning to activate the abs and help move fluid in the abs valves To try and purge air? Is the pp1 master with bigger brembo s a different part number from non big brake cars? If yes you need to match master with calipers. If no you still have air in the system.

masters throw a certain volume of fluid and the caliper piston sizes are matched to that. That’s how the same aftermarkey caliper can be used on a vette and a camaro by changing the piston sizes in the calipers.

Sounds good. I'm usually in Red because I instruct for SV, but PM me your details and I'll try to co-ordinate the garages. There should be a handful of the TMO faithful at the next SV and NASA event there, we should have a bunch of garages all in a row, and I'm working on converting some of my car show friends into track rats, so plenty of capable hands and helpers.

Good call on the ABS, and come to think of it, with all the other problems I've had, I don't believe I've even ever been able to get a full proper threshold brake in, where ABS starts kicking in. I'm bleeding after every session, and on Sunday, I bled twice, and same problem. By that time, all air should have been out of the system, which might be fault of the brake booster (was saying master cylinder before), which on the base GT is a different part number than the Performance Pack. So yes, mine are mismatched and different, and I'll try to get it switched in/out over the next few days and test at Chuckwalla this weekend.

For MC's, it' FR3Z-2140-A - D, with A+B being for the Performance Packs, difference being 2 or 3 nipples. Base GT manuals and Shelby share C, and D is everybody else auto.


They also have 4 Boosters, so going to take my B up to Z and that should hopefully be it.



Thankfully no drivers or tires were harmed, and being able to consistently brake will lead to further improved times since I'm taking it to the actual proper brake point.

 

[PatientZero]

I'm pretty jealous you're getting track time right now. It's been hovering around 0° for the last two weeks here with another 3 inches of snow coming tonight. I've driven my car ONCE since the end of 2019

 

[PaddyPrix]

I'm pretty jealous you're getting track time right now. It's been hovering around 0° for the last two weeks here with another 3 inches of snow coming tonight. I've driven my car ONCE since the end of 2019

You'll return the favor to us soon enough. We take a summer break as our tracks are all in the deserts, and we're generally fighting 110 degree track days until October or so. During that time, we watch your videos and start doing the math on how much it'd cost to go to some of your tracks and how many days we can afford to miss from work.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Finished up the Power Booster swap last night, which I'll admit was one of the most painful things I've done. Part of it has to do with me being 6'2, and the car being caged, but I guess in my advanced age, trying to crawl underneath and upside down is rather painful, and trying to outstretch the arms is hard to do, and like longtube exhausts, most spots have so little range that it seemed like 20 minutes per nut. If this software engineering thing doesn't work out, I'll send my resume to Cirque du Soleil, parce que je suis vraiment un homme aux multiples competences!

So the power boosters look identical, other than the tag. Part of me wants to bust them open, but uh, I'd rather just track it. ZC is the new Performance Pack version.



The Master Cylinder does have a slight difference between the two.
Outer diameters -
Base GT (left) - 27mm
Perf Pack (right) 28mm


Inner diameters -
Base GT (left) - 22mm
Perf Pack (right) - 23.5mm


I do have the additional GM reservoir handy right now, but for this weekend's trip, I'd prefer keeping things simple and just limited to the booster and MC, seeing if I this finally gets me to a consistent braking performance. I'll be bleeding the brakes and doing the 20-30 thousand clutch pumps tonight, along with some Motul RBF 600 to do a full flush.

I really hope that this is that final piece, and while there has been some questioning about whether you need to upgrade the master cylinder or brake booster, as somebody who has done the 6 piston swap, rotors, calipers, Motul RBF600/660, G-LOC R18 brakes, titanium shims, RB piston caliper piston boots/seals, I don't believe there is anything left other than perhaps the brake lines themselves. They've been a continuous problem with these brakes on two cars now, and a constant point of my frustration.

 

[67GTA]

I'll be bleeding the brakes and doing the 20-30 thousand clutch pumps tonight, along with some Motul RBF 600 to do a full flush.

The vacuum pump is still in my track tote so let’s hit that Sunday morning - may save a bit on your leg pump workout.

 

[PaddyPrix]

The vacuum pump is still in my track tote so let’s hit that Sunday morning - may save a bit on your leg pump workout.

Thinking you might be still playing with your rear I grabbed a vacuum pump and think I've got something to seal the top tonight. When we (you) did it at ACS, when you were sucking, did we just leave it and leave everything for a bit, or did I also jump in and clutch pump/hold while you held/increased pressure?

 

[flyhalf]

What exactly issue you have?

 

[67GTA]

Thinking you might be still playing with your rear I grabbed a vacuum pump and think I've got something to seal the top tonight. When we (you) did it at ACS, when you were sucking, did we just leave it and leave everything for a bit, or did I also jump in and clutch pump/hold while you held/increased pressure?

Just pull 20 inches of vacuum and let it hold for a minute or so, then rapidly release it. Then replace cap and pump the clutch pedal, but I’ve never pumped the pedal under vacuum. Here’s the Ford Service manual page for the S197’s, but process is the same:

 

[bob]

I've been bleeding for lots of decades. I do not understand how the ford way works.

When replacing a master I have always bench bled the master before install. It can be done after install. Then 2 man bleed each brake corner and or bleed clutch. Clutch bleed is 4 rapid pumps and as the 4th pump starts the slave bleed is open then closed at the bottom of the 4th held at bottom stroke. Do that about 3x and 95% success. Some hard to bleed clutches need more gyrations including angling car to move the high point in a slave. Some Ferraris are better this way. If you have air at the master trying to suck the rear calipers that's a long way. Sucking or pushing at the master never gets my pedal as hard as 2 man on the pedal. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Btw I have diagnostic tools, service lift, 4 welders, all kinds of tools but do not own a motive bleeder.

 

[PaddyPrix]

What exactly issue you have?

It's been a fun multi-year goose chase. TL;DR: I've never had stable brake pressures after more than one lap in my non-PP cars.
In my 2019 GT, I started off with the inverted hat rotors and promptly ran that off ACS on my 2nd lap, driving through turn 12 at like 80mph. Next day went with the 6 piston caliper, line, shield, and rotor swap, and while that worked okay, for one event, at full weight, it'd boil the stock fluid and lose the brakes. So went up to Motul RBF 660, full system flush. That'd only buy me more time until it boiled, so grabbed the Vorshlag Scoop-Swoop plates, since the non-PP doesn't have any holes or provisioning for the plate/arms, which the PP LCA's do have. The brake pads that come with the 2300-V kit aren't half bad, I believe they're Ferodo DS2500, but going up to G-LOC R12 helped some more of the initial bite, but the longevity and pedal modulation isn't there, which had me grenade the brake and hoping that'd be enough to shed speed on turn entry. I've switched to the AP Racing Rotors to ditch some of the rotational mass, and add a little cooling as they're slotted unlike the OEM Brembo blanks, and those helped some too. As I've switched to the Stripper, being lighter has also helped some, but as I've increased the speed, I generally have to double pump into most turns, and triple pump the brakes where a heavy or threshold brake would be required, which from an outsider look like I don't know what I'm doing. If you watch my lines, you'll see me shy away from the proper turn entry on the outside edges, because I fear driving right off the track, needing that space... if they catch on the 2nd, I stand in it to overbrake and early apex, or if on this time it doesn't catch and requires a third, I miss the apex and depending on the speed and turn, have a real quick decision to make, either trying a drift, or other evasive maneuver, or decide the safest place to go off on. Losing them on my straightaway entering Big Willow's cost me P3 because they didn't catch after the 3rd either. With the PP MC and PP Brake Booster, I should have the entire PP braking system swapped over, and look forward to consistent performance which should for the first time give me confidence to work on proper brake points, brake modulation, and allow me to use threshold and trailbraking where necessary. Looking back, it was borderline pretty dumb for taking this so far without going here, but I had buffed every single other component of the brake system so that these are the only ones left.

For those who say that they have done the 6 piston PP brake swap to their non-PP and it "works fine" either A) Doesn't track their car, B) Tracks their car, but not going fast or hard enough to lose their brakes, or C) Is simply copy-pasting what they saw on some other internet forum. The base GT non-PP MC is used on the Shelby GT350, but their larger rotors also have 38, 36, and 34mm caliper pistons, whereas the PP is an even 36, 36, 36 piston. Not having driven it yet, I'd figure that the additional 1.5m (7%) larger bore (23.5 vs 22) should do, or rather me having an inadequate smaller system was the source of my problems all along.

 

[PaddyPrix]

I've been bleeding for lots of decades. I do not understand how the ford way works.

When replacing a master I have always bench bled the master before install. It can be done after install. Then 2 man bleed each brake corner and or bleed clutch. Clutch bleed is 4 rapid pumps and as the 4th pump starts the slave bleed is open then closed at the bottom of the 4th held at bottom stroke. Do that about 3x and 95% success. Some hard to bleed clutches need more gyrations including angling car to move the high point in a slave. Some Ferraris are better this way. If you have air at the master trying to suck the rear calipers that's a long way. Sucking or pushing at the master never gets my pedal as hard as 2 man on the pedal. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Btw I have diagnostic tools, service lift, 4 welders, all kinds of tools but do not own a motive bleeder.

When you say bench bleed, are you running hoses in the place of the ABS lines and routing them back through the top of the MC reservoir into some fluid, and then pumping the cylinder? I'll do that for sure on this. I agree about the 2 man bleed, but she just hates doing car stuff, and doesn't drive enough to know what a firm pedal shoudl be. I do have the Motive Power Bleeder, which is actually pretty nice, and maybe I'll just have to increase the pressure higher than 15psi, maybe closer to 30. As it should only help me out for the brakes, the vacuum pump will hopefully do me just fine on the clutch this evening. I'd love to just start it up and take it for a simulated drive while it's up on all 4's, but I've been getting nasty HOA letters once again, and so it's not in my best interest to do so with it being as ridiculously loud as it is.



From everything I've read the s550 hydraulic clutch is known to be like 20-30 minutes of just constant pumping, as explained to me by a Ford Mastertech. I'll try the pump and hold tonight though. Thanks for the offer too, I'll trade you the Motive Power Bleeder for some welding