The Ford That Beat Ferrari

Discussion in 'Fords Other High Performance Vehicles' started by VoodooBoss, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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  2. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    The thought that Ford almost bought Ferrari is interesting in itself.....imagine what the Boss might have ended up looking like???????
     
  3. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

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    Who was it that said "there's no replacement for displacement"? Good aero, a low-revving big displacement engine and a four-speed box got it done.
     
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  4. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    Whoever said that never enjoyed going thru 6 gears.................just to think...I was afraid of a 6 speed when they first came out...It was in a new Corvette being raffled at the town summer fair way back then..............now a 4 speed would bore me.
     
  5. cobradave

    cobradave TMO Intermediate

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    What I thought was interesting about the Ford v Ferrari movie is that there was no mention on the Cobra Daytona... which was faster than both the GT40 and the Ferrari

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  6. blacksheep-1

    blacksheep-1 TMO Addict

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    Depends on which version, the Mark4s were running over 210 on the straights, the Daytonas couldn't match that, they topped out about 190. The Mark 4s were 427, the Daytona Cobras were 289..so there's that. Lemans was also a bit of an anomaly because of the straight.
    The AC cobras, in most cases, the 289s were actually faster in lap times than the 427s, the 427s were horrible handlers because of all that iron over the nose.
    Quote:
    more history of the 289
    “The World Championship Roadster”
    Cracked paint? Dents? Scratches? It’s history, and it’s a priceless, proud and original world champion. One of the most desirable of all Cobras, CSX2345 was one of five 289 “FIA” roadsters. The museum’s most original competition car has survived unscathed for 50 years, just as it was when Bob Bondurant booted it up the hill at Rossfeld in southern Germany on June 13, 1965 for the GT win. Along with the six Cobra Daytona Coupes, these cars are credited with winning the World Manufacturers Championship in 1965, a “first” for an American car. CSX2345 was the last of the original five built, and remains one of only two left in existence today, and the only un-restored team car still in the same condition from its last race (and the museum intends to leave it that way). This car participated in every event the roadsters entered in the 1964 European FIA season, and won the Sierra Montana Hill Climb, and the Freiberg Hill Climb as well with Bob Bondurant at the wheel, setting a new course record. It was the only Team Shelby roadster entered in the world championship in 1965, and ended its FIA career with seven races and five wins – more than any other Cobra. CSX2345 won 1st in Class and the overall Post-war Preservation Class at the 2012 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance.

    source.. shelbyamericancollection.org/cars/1964-fia-cobra-roadster-csx2345/



    Le Mans Data

    The fastest lap and highest speed records at Le Mans for the Ford GT40's are listed below:

    CIRCUIT DE 13.461 KM
    Fastest Lap
    1967 M. ANDRETTI-D. HULME (Ford - 6 980 cc) 3’23’’6 = 238.014 km/h = 147.894 mile/h
    1966 D. GURNEY (Ford - 6 982 cc) 3’30’’6 = 230.103 km/h = 142.979 mile/h
    1965 P. HILL (Ford - 6 982 cc) 3’37’’5 = 222.803 km/h = 138.443 mile/h
    1964 P. HILL (Ford - 4 181 cc) 3’49’’2 = 211.429 km/h = 131.375 mile/h

    Highest Speed:
    Tests
    1967 FORD 340 km/h = 211.27 mile/h
    1966 FORD 320 km/h = 198.84 mile/h
    1965 FORD 310 km/h = 192.62 mile/h
    Race
    1967 FORD 343 km/h = 213.13 mile/h
    1966 FORD 325 km/h = 201.94 mile/h
    1965 FORD 302 km/h = 187.65 mile/h

    In 1968, the circuit was changed to 13.469 km and the fastest lap speeds and highest speeds were set by Porsches.


    Those GT40s were tough cars, they were winning races a full 5 years after they were designed, that is an impossibility today.https://sportscar365.com/imsa/sebring-still-crazy-after-all-these-years-1969/

    the 427 "Daytona" was one butt ugly car, and never really turned a lap in competition.
    https://www.supercars.net/blog/1965-shelby-cobra-daytona-427-super-coupe/

    This is a really good video of the Ford Lemans cars. I have been extremely fortunate in that I've had my hands on legit Boss 302 (69) race and street cars, a couple of 289s A/C cobras, 66 GT350s, and 67 and 68 Ford Gt500s, along with a number of Sunbeam Tigers and several Panteras over the years. I've actually assembled engines for the Gt500s, Gt350s and 2 Panteras.
    FWIW I've also wrenched on a few L88 and ZL1 Corvettes.

    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/wat...rom-1966-24-hours-of-le-mans-at-shelby-event/
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  7. cobradave

    cobradave TMO Intermediate

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    blacksheep, i was born in 66 so only have second-hand knowledge of this history. I'm a little envious that you've been able to get your hands dirty on some of the cars you listed.
    I thought the 289 Daytonas were able to turn in faster lap times than the gt40s due to better handling and aerodynamics. Perhaps that was at other venues. It's also possible that I'm misremembering...
    -dave


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  8. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    Interesting , as the movie stated Miles had the fastest time in 1966, yet the data above from BS1 shows Dan Gurney with the quickest GT40 time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  9. blacksheep-1

    blacksheep-1 TMO Addict

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    Unfortunately, I'm finding myself an unintentional expert on some of these cars, I just built a set of Carter WCFB carbs for a 59 Corvette because no one knew how to work on them.
    the 289 Daytona Cobras were formidable, but the body had some issues with drag, the Gt40s on the other hand, had issues with lift.

    Quote:
    The coupe's '65 season ended with little fanfare, Shelby consumed by the GT40 and Ford's obsession with beating Ferrari at Le Mans. Brock had been working on the so-called Super Coupe, a closed version of the 427 Cobra, but funding dried up, and the car went uncompleted. In 1966, the six finished coupes were offered at Shelby American's famous "garage sale," $24,000 for the lot. Like GTOs, each is now worth double-digit millions.


    Cobradave...you will love this.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a26376/coupe-de-grace-shelby-daytona-coupe-story/
     
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