Toe Heel Braking

[Bill Pemberton]

The whole concept of heel/toe downshifting is to keep the revs up when you are braking and going down through the gears. If you are just braking the rpms will drop , hence it will take time to get the car back up to the speed/rpms you were at before, so you in a sense overslow the car. Keeping the revs up gets you out of the corner faster and keeps the motor from falling on it's head whenever you brake --- this is the reason it is the method taught at virtually all Driving/Racing schools as it is intended to be one fluid motion. No offense , but I do not know of a single school that teaches a double clutch method , as it was a concept used 30-40 years ago with older gearboxes and clutches.

 

[rom]

The whole concept of heel/toe downshifting is to keep the revs up when you are braking and going down through the gears. If you are just braking the rpms will drop , hence it will take time to get the car back up to the speed/rpms you were at before, so you in a sense overslow the car. Keeping the revs up gets you out of the corner faster and keeps the motor from falling on it's head whenever you brake --- this is the reason it is the method taught at virtually all Driving/Racing schools as it is intended to be one fluid motion. No offense , but I do not know of a single school that teaches a double clutch method , as it was a concept used 30-40 years ago with older gearboxes and clutches.

I totally agree Bill, my point being once you learn the Lost Art of double clutching, you can drive all kinds of vintage racers.
that extra step is not necessary by modern standards as I was saying, but it doesnt hurt the car, but keeps everything fun.
I *was* taught double clutching at a French Rallye School ( @wrx style driving) , but that was a while ago and on 1980s peugeot and citroens ( 405 mi16 and other fun little boxes)

and I do it fast enough where it takes the same amount of time as Rev matching, although legs appear to dance some kind clownesque Gigue

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Rom,

Will agree it is beneficial for old cars, and especially if you get to do Vintage Racing - lucky you!!! At present I am just appreciative that the Engineers at Ford did a really nice job making the Boss relatively easy to heel and toe downshift.

 

[Grant 302]

Ha, yeah...I learned way back in the '80s too...just after I learned to drive stick...on the track at race school!

I agree that it's totally a waste on this car and most modern cars. Only on low intertia engines and maybe ones that need to spool. It was actually hard to go back to double blip like that for the video. But habits are hard to break for me with the double clutch. One of the videos I took yesterday, I still double pumped the clutch just to make the first move to N. Was weird when I was in the car, and even stranger when I saw it on video!

So while I've stopped double revving, I don't think I will stop double clutching at this point.

 

[rom]

Ha, yeah...I learned way back in the '80s too...just after I learned to drive stick...on the track at race school!

I agree that it's totally a waste on this car and most modern cars. Only on low intertia engines and maybe ones that need to spool. It was actually hard to go back to double blip like that for the video. But habits are hard to break for me with the double clutch. One of the videos I took yesterday, I still double pumped the clutch just to make the first move to N. Was weird when I was in the car, and even stranger when I saw it on video!

So while I've stopped double revving, I don't think I will stop double clutching at this point.

here we are then .... two old farts with die hard habits XD

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Well, this old fart did kick the habit , but it likely is because it is such a riot to heel and toe with a MGW short throw shift kit/knob!!
Anyway, good to know old farts have good taste in machines, since we all three have Competition Orange Bosses.

#12 , 2012 Boss in Comp. Orange!!

 

[jim woodruff]

Could avoid messing with the electronics by connecting the cable mentioned above to the throttle pedal?

That is a great idea simple and no electronic concerns. I am going to look into this during the winter. The only problem I foresee is the pull back spring for the throttle . Thanks, Jim

Nice solution! Not sure where I would connect it... I don't know what the throttle signal is, but I think a parallel bypass with a rheostat and moment switch N/O might do the trick.

I double clutch heel toe everywhere even in town... I used to use the easy method now only use the real man's method ( ahahah) so here is your definitive HEEL TOE methods :

there a 2 methods:

1) the REV MATCH ONLY heel toe method :
- brake with right toe keep it there
-push in clutch
- blip throttle while shifting to lower gear
- release clutch
-> that only gives you a smoother transitional feel ie, not jerky downshit
= NOT TRUE double clutch heel toe.

2) the DOUBLE CLUTCH heel toe method :
- brake with right toe keep it there
-push in clutch
- shift to neutral
- LET GO off clutch while blipping throttle with right heel
- push in clutch
- shift to lower gear
- release clutch
= THE REAL METHOD, takes longer to master, and you'll look like your have ants in your pants ( legs are dancing)
but this method rev matches AND SAVES THE SYNCHROS on older gear boxes.
now we do not need that real method since its not like an old gear box that needs this method to save on wear and tear...
with that said it is a GREAT HABIT to have since you can then drive anything with that: vintage race cars, 18 wheeler trucks .. anything.

thats what I do , and its extremely addictive when performed right and gives enormous satisfaction and pride XD
and it keeps you real busy , you never get bored even at 35 mph

PS 1: you dont need special pedals, just the right shoes flat bottom, flexible with good grip and feel. I tried converse but actual feel is terrible and soles are too soft, I use so unknown von dutch low tops whatever, and sometimes simple low tops pumas. you want a shoe that lets your ankle flex as blip with heel while braking with toe requires flexing ( feels like spraining your ankle but youll get over it)

PS 2: at first you will feel that it takes to 30 seconds to shift, but practice makes perfect and soon enough, you'll be ' dancing ' too .

hope this helps, and practice on a beater car first !

Absorootly agree on the double clutch. For me, I have to blip a little higher to make it single rev. I used to double rev, but that's only because I learned to do it years ago on my brother's 4 bangers. Double rev is nicer for show since you can hear it...Single rev done right, you can't tell it's double clutch unless you're taking video.

At the track, I have a bad habit of only using the double clutch on the 3-2.

And rom, your typo above gave me a good laugh this morning.

Also forgot to mention about the clutchless shifting that you can upshift too, but you have to wait for the revs to come down on their own to enter the higher gear. Takes way too much time, but maybe this is the solution to all the lockout issues. har har.

 

[rom]

Well, this old fart did kick the habit , but it likely is because it is such a riot to heel and toe with a MGW short throw shift kit/knob!!
Anyway, good to know old farts have good taste in machines, since we all three have Competition Orange Bosses.

#12 , 2012 Boss in Comp. Orange!!

 

[Sesshomurai]

....snipped...
So while I've stopped double revving, I don't think I will stop double clutching at this point.

Won't that just wear down the clutching mechanisms compared to holding the clutch through neutral/blip and into gear? Not to mention "knees"...

 

[Grant 302]

....snipped...
So while I've stopped double revving, I don't think I will stop double clutching at this point.

Won't that just wear down the clutching mechanisms compared to holding the clutch through neutral/blip and into gear? Not to mention "knees"...

A day of driving like that *might* be harder on the knees. Mine aren't great, but I learned in P/T...no pain, no gain. And haven't been back to the physical therapist for a few years.

As for clutch part wear...I'd rather rebuild or replace pedal components that I can do myself over rebuilding transmissions that I will pay for. The double clutching reduces wear on the synchros for the downshifts. Clutch wear should be negligible with rev matching either way. I could say is saves the trans wear for my drag racing upshifts!

And with the way our clutch hydraulics pump/bleed the fluid...the extra pumps will help cycle the old fluid out. And for all I know, it might be why neither of my cars has the clutch pedal sticking problem.