Track day tire puncture

[barspen]

Hi All

My last track outing left me with a punctured tire after hitting a 6" bolt in the left rear tire, cleanly in the center tread. I have 275/40/18 Nitto NT01 with about 40-50% of their life left.

What are thoughts on:
1 - Patch the tire (inside and out) and call it good
2 - Buy two new tires - assuming they would go in the front if I have 2-new and 2-used
3 - Replace them all

On a side note, in the future, I will always carry a patch kit to the track ...Would have made it much easier/quicker to get home.

THX in advance.

 

[Grant 302]

Anything but #1. I wouldn’t run a patched tire on the track. Especially not on with a bolt hole.

Just depends how you want to manage the set going forward.

On a side note, in the future, I will always carry a patch kit to the track ...Would have made it much easier/quicker to get home.

Definitely get one. But I bring far too much spare stuff as it is. The kits are small enough that I wouldn’t want to be without one.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Correct advice, #1 is not an option!! Have seen guys, years back, do that ( plug or patch a tire )and end up in the weeds or worse when the g forces helped destroy said patched tire. The g forces and speed today are much higher, so save yourself and your car.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I might consider plugging and patching IF you were keeping for a spare to get home on. Otherwise, no worth the risk.

Option 3 is youyr best bet.

 

[blacksheep-1]

If you can afford to buy all 4, I would do it, then use some of the leftovers as spares and pick up a couple of spare wheels. If not, I'd buy 2, run them on the back for a session or 2, and put them on the front (providing you're running a square setup).

 

[Tonymustang302]

@honeybadger has tracked with tires that had plugs in them......he’s still alive

 

[o-man]

Back in the day, the only way to preserve a high speed rated tire was to use a combination plug/patch. You guys are probably right about replacing tire due to weight/side loads of a Mustang

 

[Coz]

I have a 295/35 Nitto NT05 patched from the inside, near the shoulder. Probably 80% tread remaining. I definitely agree with recommendations not to use it on a road course. However, what do you think about using it at a dragstrip (along with the 1hr drive to/from)? Burnouts would be limited to about 2 seconds just to remove debris. Speed through the traps is around 114-115.

I figure they're better for that than my daily Conti ECS and I intend to limit the Falken RT615K+ to the road course.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I think alot of this comes down to one simple question, " Is saving the cost of a 200-400 dollar tire worth risking a 15,000 -80,000 dollar investment and maybe my life? Kind of silly what we do as humans and we always know someone who repaired a tire and lived to tell the tale. On the other hand, many of us Old Farticus drivers know of the guys who played lawnmower or crash test dummy.

Really a just logic question -----------$350 or maybe $50,000 , whadda ya wanna spend?

 

[barspen]

Thanks for the replies and advice. I'll be doing the doing the 2-tire route. I figured the plug\patch route was not advisable, but thought I'd ask the question since this is my first punctured track tire.

On a side note, I was pretty amazed how well the NT01 stayed inflated. Since I has initially thought I hit a rock (which was actually the bolt) after seeing one kick out from the side mirror view, I completed the last 1.5 laps with no issue. No leaning, pulling, extra noise, etc. The tire lost air after when I parked in the paddock and was getting ready to leave the event. Feel pretty fortunate...

 

[blacksheep-1]

Thanks for the replies and advice. I'll be doing the doing the 2-tire route. I figured the plug\patch route was not advisable, but thought I'd ask the question since this is my first punctured track tire.

On a side note, I was pretty amazed how well the NT01 stayed inflated. Since I has initially thought I hit a rock (which was actually the bolt) after seeing one kick out from the side mirror view, I completed the last 1.5 laps with no issue. No leaning, pulling, extra noise, etc. The tire lost air after when I parked in the paddock and was getting ready to leave the event. Feel pretty fortunate...

the new, low profile performance tires have a very short, stiff sidewall that really helped you out.

 

[blacksheep-1]

this is a great example of why you shouldn't run tires with patches or plugs, especially on a banked track, which is sort of sketchy for HPDE guys even when nothing goes wrong.
there is NO way that a plugged or patched tire will stand up to the type of distortion.

 

[Coz]

especially on a banked track, which is sort of sketchy for HPDE guys

The resolution of the pic isn't real clear but I'll take your word for it.

With respect to your caveat for HPDE, is because of the types of tires normally used in HPDE (non slicks) or is it more about a specific technique that must be learned?

I ask because of track days and Track Nights at Pocono that use the SE Option 2 or 3 course that includes the Tunnel Turn. Actually, there are probably a dozen different configurations at Pocono and over ohalf of them use at least one of the banked turns.

The Lightbulb at NJMP Lightning is banked but does not seem as steep.

 

[Grant 302]

I have a 295/35 Nitto NT05 patched from the inside, near the shoulder. Probably 80% tread remaining. I definitely agree with recommendations not to use it on a road course. However, what do you think about using it at a dragstrip (along with the 1hr drive to/from)? Burnouts would be limited to about 2 seconds just to remove debris. Speed through the traps is around 114-115.

I figure they're better for that than my daily Conti ECS and I intend to limit the Falken RT615K+ to the road course.

Please don’t. It’s not only the risk you take for yourself.

 

[blacksheep-1]

The resolution of the pic isn't real clear but I'll take your word for it.

With respect to your caveat for HPDE, is because of the types of tires normally used in HPDE (non slicks) or is it more about a specific technique that must be learned?

I ask because of track days and Track Nights at Pocono that use the SE Option 2 or 3 course that includes the Tunnel Turn. Actually, there are probably a dozen different configurations at Pocono and over ohalf of them use at least one of the banked turns.

The Lightbulb at NJMP Lightning is banked but does not seem as steep.

Banked tracks can cause some real problems, as an example, if the car gets way loose, instead of correcting it, you're prolly better off keeping the car locked down to the left and get all over the brakes. Trying to correct a loose car on a bank can shoot you straight into the wall. The other reason is that most HPDE guys don't really keep a close eye on pressures, and as the above photos indicate, the tire is about 3/8 of an inch pulled back from the bead. Fortunately, those are CCW wheels which have an extremely aggressive bead design that will retain tire even at low pressures. Another reason is that the usual response to roll over (onto the sidewall) is to add pressure, this can cause less adhesion, more steering input and thus more tread squirm, once you start down that drain there is no coming back until you blister the tires.
The track shown in the upper 2 pics is Homestead, which has both an aggressive bank and also a shorter than most radius on the curve. The bottom is Daytona on the infield and you can see the rollover on the rear tire, so it can happen at both ends.

 

[Coz]

...if the car gets way loose, instead of correcting it, you're prolly better off keeping the car locked down to the left and get all over the brakes. Trying to correct a loose car on a bank can shoot you straight into the wall.

Thank you so much!! This is great info to know.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Thank you so much!! This is great info to know.

The tires in the top pics are also at the correct pressures, that car won the race, but it does depict the wheel/ tire dynamics, and some of the stress on the assembly, particularly the tires. Imagine what would happen if you hosed up the pressures, or didn't warm up the tires.

 

[honeybadger]

I've run a patched tire a couple of times (as well as sidewall damage). No issues. Couple of important caveats, though:

1. I had spares with me if needed
2. I only did it at tracks that I felt comfortable dealing with a blow out if it went wrong
3. I didn't run anywhere near 10/10ths
4. I have a bit higher risk tolerance than others

This isn't a statement to brag or act macho. Stuff like this really comes down to risk tolerance and what you're comfortable with. I've had a tire blow on me (surprise, it was a tire with a total of 45 mins on it in the middle of a race). I wouldn't touch anything banked or north 125 mph or so on a plugged tire. But tighter tracks with run off? Sure.

I don't advocate running plugged tires, but I haven't been black and white when it comes to my decision to run them, either. As with everything in life, there's a lot of grey area here. Want to be as safe as possible? Replace it. But there's a ton of grey area that some would argue is safe "enough." Up to you. I'd rather run a plugged tire in my car with full race car safety than a stock car with healthy tires. All risk tolerance and perspective, IMHO.

I had a tire rep tell me this one was safe to run for the day when I caught it on the trailer backing out during a day of testing. Ran 6 sessions on it and it was fine. Tossed it afterwards. This one was hairy, I'll admit it. Was never super comfortable.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Honestly HoneyBadger I think quite a few of us might have a little higher risk tolerance than others, but it is the others that one has to consider when you have tire damage. We take a risk , initially , just being on the track , but pushing the tire's capability could mean a blow out , and even on a track we know well, we can't control if the it happens while near another vehicle. I think taking that risk with a likely out of control car ( if it fails ) is not fair for others on track. Just a thought ........

 

[honeybadger]

Honestly HoneyBadger I think quite a few of us might have a little higher risk tolerance than others, but it is the others that one has to consider when you have tire damage. We take a risk , initially , just being on the track , but pushing the tire's capability could mean a blow out , and even on a track we know well, we can't control if the it happens while near another vehicle. I think taking that risk with a likely out of control car ( if it fails ) is not fair for others on track. Just a thought ........

Absolutely agreed, Bill. I wouldn’t be near any other car on track with a tire like the one above. I’m not regularly near other cars on track in general, tho. Unless I know the other driver(s), I just typically like playing the cat and mouse game. The risk is too high for an HPDE, and I don’t want to be rammed into or ran into someone else due to a mistake. I The day I ran the tire with the messed up sidewall it was a private day with only 3 cars on track (including me), so I was comfortable with the risk.

A tire with a small hole in the middle of the tread is a lot lower risk than most. If I was already at the track and the rest of the conditions lined up, I’d probably run it. Not saying I advocate running it, but also not sure I’m in the other other camp either. I personally feel there’s some more grey area than I typically see presented.