Boss576
Just finished a track day at Sears Point this weekend. Had a decent amount of brake fade, but the pedal feel was not good with everything heated up. Any recommendations for front and rear pads for track days? Thanks.
The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts
Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.
- Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
pufferfish
Supporting Vendor
Kind of depends on your goals and abilities now. The good news is you found the limits of your stock pads! Without understanding your skill level and car prep/mods, it's hard to give a solid recommendation, but I am a fan of progressive changes. Unfortunately, that requires time and money to run through the phases one by one.
I recommend a solid entry level pad (like the hawk HP+) for intermediate level drivers. The carbotech xp12 front/ xp10 rear is a fantastic pad combination for the advanced driver and really shines with r-compound tires. And they are the only pad manufacturer (that I am aware of) to offer pre-bedding, which maximizes track time by eliminating wasting the first session on bedding new brakes.
If you would like to discuss your braking expectations and needs, give me a call and I would be happy to help. Dont worry, I don't hard sell.
I recommend a solid entry level pad (like the hawk HP+) for intermediate level drivers. The carbotech xp12 front/ xp10 rear is a fantastic pad combination for the advanced driver and really shines with r-compound tires. And they are the only pad manufacturer (that I am aware of) to offer pre-bedding, which maximizes track time by eliminating wasting the first session on bedding new brakes.
If you would like to discuss your braking expectations and needs, give me a call and I would be happy to help. Dont worry, I don't hard sell.
You must have been there Sat because I talked to all the Boss owners on Sunday. Do you have Dot 4 fluid and the brake cooling ducts installed?
pufferfish said:
PFC and Brembo also have bedded and race ready pads. Good advise on the entry level pads. Another setup could be PFC 08/06 front and 97 rear with an intermediate driver, cost is more but they will last longer as skills advance.
drano38
Wayne
- 1,130
- 318
+1 on DOT 4 fluid and brake cooling ducts.
Then maybe Hawk HP+ pads.
But after another weekend or 2, you'll be ready for the next level of pad.
This year, I switched to PFC 01 on the front, and like them. If they get a little pad transfer buildup onto the rotors, they're aggressive enough to clear the rotor off. And they bite good when warmed up. Next I'll try PFC 08 for more longevity.
Then maybe Hawk HP+ pads.
But after another weekend or 2, you'll be ready for the next level of pad.
This year, I switched to PFC 01 on the front, and like them. If they get a little pad transfer buildup onto the rotors, they're aggressive enough to clear the rotor off. And they bite good when warmed up. Next I'll try PFC 08 for more longevity.
- 1,172
- 2
+2 on HP+ pads for the front, might want HPS rears because I have locked the rears up on HP+'s. So mad I did HPS pads for the track.
- Thread starter
- #7
isrboss
I'm going to give the PFC z-rated(1001.11) pads a shot. I just got off the phone with a rep. and he feels the Z-rated would be a step up over the oem pads. I'm not looking for much more over the oem pads, just need that little extra after 10 laps. I like to drive to the track, have fun then drive home with out messing around with parts.
I do get some fade with the oem pads, but nothing I'm not expecting. I tend to lean more toward knowing I still have a license plate on my Boss, so it's a street car first. Therefore I don't expect to be setting the fastest lap or do I drive over 8/10's for multiple laps( I like to cool the water/oil/pads down by slowing a couple laps by early shifting and early throttle release prior to brake zones). Just by not expecting gobs of stopping power with the factory pads has helped me not see a lot of fade. I have also followed the Boss track prep bedding procedure to the tee on 2 sets of the oem, and I think that has helped prevent brake fade at the track. Things I look to get from the pfc z-rated pads are more confidence in the brakes after 8-10 laps, keeping my foot in the sweet spot to heel toe like the oems do, but not be quite as soft. If I can get a slightly harder pedal I think I will be happy.
The rep also mentioned the pfc brake fluid having a light viscosity that helps flow quicker through the abs veins/valves. I have never thought of this before, so is there anything to this? He also mentioned, that in out cars, not to jump on the brakes, but roll into it, apply normal pressure then after a couple of seconds get on them. He said the abs will pull 200psi from the system thinking an impact is going to happen. Apparently our abs is thinking ahead, and attempting to predict a collision over track day.
One more thing I found interesting, is he told me the race teams has been given a way to enter a maintenance mode in the abs pump to bleed the brake system. Has anyone heard of this mode, and can we utilize this without software?
It's an inexpensive option and I will test them at PBIR on Aug 17.
I do get some fade with the oem pads, but nothing I'm not expecting. I tend to lean more toward knowing I still have a license plate on my Boss, so it's a street car first. Therefore I don't expect to be setting the fastest lap or do I drive over 8/10's for multiple laps( I like to cool the water/oil/pads down by slowing a couple laps by early shifting and early throttle release prior to brake zones). Just by not expecting gobs of stopping power with the factory pads has helped me not see a lot of fade. I have also followed the Boss track prep bedding procedure to the tee on 2 sets of the oem, and I think that has helped prevent brake fade at the track. Things I look to get from the pfc z-rated pads are more confidence in the brakes after 8-10 laps, keeping my foot in the sweet spot to heel toe like the oems do, but not be quite as soft. If I can get a slightly harder pedal I think I will be happy.
The rep also mentioned the pfc brake fluid having a light viscosity that helps flow quicker through the abs veins/valves. I have never thought of this before, so is there anything to this? He also mentioned, that in out cars, not to jump on the brakes, but roll into it, apply normal pressure then after a couple of seconds get on them. He said the abs will pull 200psi from the system thinking an impact is going to happen. Apparently our abs is thinking ahead, and attempting to predict a collision over track day.
One more thing I found interesting, is he told me the race teams has been given a way to enter a maintenance mode in the abs pump to bleed the brake system. Has anyone heard of this mode, and can we utilize this without software?
It's an inexpensive option and I will test them at PBIR on Aug 17.
Highly unlikely. The pedal sticks at high RPM shifts not while you're braking.F.D. Sako said:
- Thread starter
- #10
isrboss
F.D. Sako said:
I agree with NFS, the rep described this as a brake force issue. Told me one of the problems he has seen from the abs system was if you nail the pedal at initial the abs will pull 200psi and you will need to make up for that with your leg. He made it sound as if you would need to stand on the brakes with a lot of force to get the braking needed.
I have never seen any issues with too much brake pedal pressure needed when approaching ABS limit. I highly doubt ANY good DOT 4 fluid will make much of a difference on this area. I run stock calipers, either Castro SRF, Pagid or Motel 600 fluid with Pagid RST-2/RS-56 combo for pads.
As far as Hawk HP+ pads are concerned I would not recommend them to even novice drivers. They can fade easily and will tear up your rotors. As most of you know i swear by Pagid but you also know i have a dog in the fight there. Carbos or PFC would also be a much better choice once someone moves off of the stock pads. Stoll i think the Pagids perform the best overall which is why i use them, independent of what I sell. Believe it or not ;-)
As far as Hawk HP+ pads are concerned I would not recommend them to even novice drivers. They can fade easily and will tear up your rotors. As most of you know i swear by Pagid but you also know i have a dog in the fight there. Carbos or PFC would also be a much better choice once someone moves off of the stock pads. Stoll i think the Pagids perform the best overall which is why i use them, independent of what I sell. Believe it or not ;-)
- Thread starter
- #13
isrboss
PeteInCT said:
He was not saying force approaching abs, he was referring to how rapidly you would initially get hard on the brake pedal. I know I have not had this issue, but I always tend to roll on the brakes anyhow, kinda give them an early feel prior to digging in. I would think this would be noticed by drivers with setups like yourself, being on a pad with more bite and able to drive deeper.
He wasn't your in the office reading from the PFC marketing material to sell me stuff kind of rep. He is a pfc rep. that spends all his time at the track with the teams. I just wanted to pass some info to the community to see if it might ding the bell up top for some. At the moment I don't need anything except a tad better front street pad from pfc.
- 367
- 1
I would also state that the PFC rep's recommendation on how to get on the brakes is just proper form anyways.
One shouldnt jab the brake pedal from the get go--especially not with proper pads.
One shouldnt jab the brake pedal from the get go--especially not with proper pads.
- Thread starter
- #16
isrboss
F.D. Sako said:Racing data analysts and engineers may adisagreebut for our HPDE, track day purposes it is more assuring to "gradually" get on the brakes.
I don't find any one persons words final, even in the racing industry. There is a reason race teams are better than others out there on track. Just want to say, that, unless you have a 302r/s you have a street car not a race car. Brake style is what works best for you staying off the wall.
Grant 302
basic and well known psychic
+2 on DOT 4 fluid and brake cooling ducts. If you don't have them already. Stock front pads will definitely fade when overheated, and maybe before that.drano38 said:
I'd suggest the PFC 01 or 08 up front to start. Pad choice is a personal one, and until you try a few...it's hard to have an opinion.
- Thread starter
- #18
isrboss
pfc 11's will be out in the next couple months and this compound is supposed to enhance all the positives of the 01 compound.
- 42
- 0
I used OEM pads but have proper SS brake lines, Motul 600 fluid and the brake cooling ducts and experienced no brake issues at 11 sessions in Daytona (grand-am circuit).
But granted, im not a pro or even skilled at this (i was hauling ass in my own lil world!!)
But granted, im not a pro or even skilled at this (i was hauling ass in my own lil world!!)
- 252
- 2
He's on street tires, right?
Are the PFC and Carbotech pads appropriate for street tires?
Are the PFC and Carbotech pads appropriate for street tires?
TMO Supporting Vendors
