Track pad recommendations

[drano38]

I'm running PFC 01 with no issues on Nitto NT05, which of course, are max performance street.
I ran Carbotech XP10, XP12 and RP2 on same tires. Carbotech sales rep suggested XP16 and up for R-compound tires, but I've heard of some running them on street tires.

 

[Roadhouse]

I'm running PFC 01 with no issues on Nitto NT05, which of course, are max performance street.
I ran Carbotech XP10, XP12 and RP2 on same tires. Carbotech sales rep suggested XP16 and up for R-compound tires, but I've heard of some running them on street tires.

I've run Carbotech XP20s on NT05s with no issues. I agree with the others though, skip the HP+ pads and go straight for a Carbotech xp12/10 setup. Or something similar from another manufacturer, such as the PFC 01s Wayne is using.

 

[PeteInCT]

If your going to run Carbos you should speak with Mike Jr. there. XP-20's are recommended for use with slicks like Hoosier R6's. For an NT-05 they recommend an XP-12 or XP-16. All of this matters on track where you are trying to match level of tire traction to frictional forces to change the ABS limit.

 

[isrboss]

Installed the pfc z-rated pads and bedded them today. I'm not going to give them an approved rating for the track yet (Aug 17), but during the bedding I like the way they came in while hot. After 3 tracks and 2 sets of oem pads all I could muster on track and on multiple road surfaces with tires(RE-11) up to temp was 1.03g during braking. During early bedding the z-rated would not go over .90g until around the 10th 65-0mph which was fine because I was only shooting for that anyways. Now around 10 of these stops the pads are smoking as usual, then around stop 12 the pedal effort was getting lighter and was climbing up to .98g. All was pretty normal while bedding the oem up to when they got smoking hot. Where the oem's would perform better after this point as well, the heat was still getting to them making getting to abs quite an effort. The z-rated pads did better with the heat and although I was not looking to enter abs while bedding, my habits were putting me in abs. By the 19th stop I was recording 1.04g of braking force (street temp tires, on the street the oem's were recording 1.01g), and able to come right up to abs and control whether I entered or not, something that was more difficult with the oem pads when hot. I did not give the pads any cool down, I would accel. briskly up to 65mph, brake over .9g then re-accel (I do have brake cooling ducts). Just read the Boss bedding instructions for how I bedded the z-rated. I did not do the recovery, because I will drive the car normal from here until Aug 17.

Street rating= good (for me)
So far they get a street approval, decent cold bite, little to no fade during street braking scenarios, no noise (so far), can't comment on dusting because I got quite a bit from the bedding, but not any more than oem.

UPDATE Track rating= Bad (worse than oem)
A ton of pressure is needed to get sufficient braking. Pads are chunking material, left deposits on the rotors. Only positive was little dust.

 

[isrboss]

Updated the Performance Friction Z-rated track thoughts above.

 

[F.D. Sako]

which one are the z-rated pads?
I did a quick search on their website and couldnt find anything under the "motorsports" section. Were they racing pads or street?

 

[Bossman2012]

I'm curious about the recommendation of a different pad compound for front versus rear. I really like the PFC 06 pads (front and rear) on my long-time BMW E30 track car (I guess the 08 are an improvement over the 06) and the race shop recommendation for that car is to use the same pad compound front and rear. So I'm wondering about the PFC 01/08 front, PFC 97 rear recommendation for the Boss.

I know that the Boss is fairly front heavy compared to the BMW but I would think that the Boss has a proportioning valve that already takes this into account (including the fact that we have massive Brembos in the front but stock calipers in the back). Is the PFC 97 considered a less aggressive pad and less likely to cause rear wheel ABS activation? Are folks happy with the PFC01 or 08 front, PFC 97 rear combination on track?

Thanks for any info. I'm getting ready to buy new pads F+R in the next few days.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

I'm curious about the recommendation of a different pad compound for front versus rear. I really like the PFC 06 pads (front and rear) on my long-time BMW E30 track car (I guess the 08 are an improvement over the 06) and the race shop recommendation for that car is to use the same pad compound front and rear. So I'm wondering about the PFC 01/08 front, PFC 97 rear recommendation for the Boss.

I know that the Boss is fairly front heavy compared to the BMW but I would think that the Boss has a proportioning valve that already takes this into account (including the fact that we have massive Brembos in the front but stock calipers in the back). Is the PFC 97 considered a less aggressive pad and less likely to cause rear wheel ABS activation? Are folks happy with the PFC01 or 08 front, PFC 97 rear combination on track?

The 97 is much less aggressive then any of the 0(X) pads. I don't think using a more aggressive pad in the back is going to make a difference. Almost every race team inluding the current racing Boss 302 S and R's have the 97's in the rears. If there was a reason to use a more aggressive pad in the back I am sure they would know about it.

There are not many that have used the 06 let alone the 06 and 08 to compare. I am not sure if the 08 are more aggressive then the 06 if that is what you mean by improvement. The 08 is less aggressive then the 01 but will last longer, it is not a night and day difference but you can feel less initial bite on the 08's. I have also run 05's, 07's and 01's. The 01 is an old compound but still used to win races every day, I really like them. The 07 felt a little more aggressive then the 01 however it was hard to tell since I used one set that was take-off from a 302R. The 05's are the least aggressive I have tried, got them new really cheap and they were worth the little I paid for them but I will not run them again since the 01 or 07 are much better.

Bottom line is if the enduro 06's are working for you stick with them. If you decide to change definitely go with the 01's and compare the others to these. The 01 is a great all around compound no matter the weight of the car, switching to 06 or 08 would be more about wear and cost.

 

[cloud9]

+2 on DOT 4 fluid and brake cooling ducts. If you don't have them already. Stock front pads will definitely fade when overheated, and maybe before that.

I'd suggest the PFC 01 or 08 up front to start. Pad choice is a personal one, and until you try a few...it's hard to have an opinion.

This is so true. Many guys love the PFC01 pads, but they don't have an aggressive enough bite for me. I was always a Hawk DTC70 fan and still like them; however, after trying the Pagid RS-15s during NASA TT last week, I have a new favorite It really comes down to driving style, experience level and preference.

 

[isrboss]

which one are the z-rated pads?
I did a quick search on their website and couldnt find anything under the "motorsports" section. Were they racing pads or street?

The z-rated are street pads. You can purchase over the counter at a lot of local parts stores. These pads are a good replacement for daily, as you save money and low dust. On track the oem pads performed better at high sustained heat. The z-rated were much harder on my rotors as well.

 

[boro92]

I've run Carbotech XP20s on NT05s with no issues. I agree with the others though, skip the HP+ pads and go straight for a Carbotech xp12/10 setup. Or something similar from another manufacturer, such as the PFC 01s Wayne is using.

Reviving an old thread

Queston to those that've tried:

Is it worth going to XP12/XP10 on street tires (Michelin PSS) or XP10/XP8 combo will be fine?
I'm after better modulation over stock pads, but don't want crazy initial bite (but then again, more initial bite over stock is prefered!).
What fits the bill?

I want to stray away from something so crazy that I engage abs with a light brush of the foot

 

[F.D. Sako]

I installed XP12/XP10 couple of days ago, going to the track tomorrow. I've bed the pads in, but i know carbotechs really bed in at the track during the first two laps or so. I remember that was the case with my corolla and XP8's. first lap was kind of scary and brakes were not working as i expected lol. But that all changed after the first two laps when things got in order.

As of now, I've noticed there's more initial bite, compared to the stock pads, especially when the brake pedal is depressed about an inch. I'll try to give my impressions after the event.

One thing i'm kind of bummed about is, I practiced heel-toe with stock pads on the street... now that modulation is different with the carbotech's, seems like everything I got used to is out the window.

IMO, XP12/XP10 is not overkill with performance summer tires. I've gotten similar responses and recommendations from carbotech and most of the vendors in this forum. But it also depends on your experience lvl.

 

[boro92]

I installed XP12/XP10 couple of days ago, going to the track tomorrow. I've bed the pads in, but i know carbotechs really bed in at the track during the first two laps or so. I remember that was the case with my corolla and XP8's. first lap was kind of scary and brakes were not working as i expected lol. But that all changed after the first two laps when things got in order.

As of now, I've noticed there's more initial bite, compared to the stock pads, especially when the brake pedal is depressed about an inch. I'll try to give my impressions after the event.

One thing i'm kind of bummed about is, I practiced heel-toe with stock pads on the street... now that modulation is different with the carbotech's, seems like everything I got used to is out the window.

IMO, XP12/XP10 is not overkill with performance summer tires. I've gotten similar responses and recommendations from carbotech and most of the vendors in this forum. But it also depends on your experience lvl.

Thanks for your feedback.
I look forward to your notes post track day (and also regarding square tires, IIRC?)

I'll see you back here tomorrow!!!

 

[F.D. Sako]

Yes, I owe you two things ;D

 

[steveespo]

Sako
You will enjoy running the carobs vs stock or hawk pads. Be careful on the XP12/10 combo for wear rates if you are a hard breaker even on street tires that combo is reall for lighter cars, I've run them and performance is great but the left side, especially the rear wore after 2.5 days at VIR last year. This year I am running XP24/16 with better wear and better performance on Michelin PSS or Pirelli slick tires. No over torque or modulation issues. I also leave them on for street driving, I don't daily drive the car but have no problems for Sunday drives or trips to and from the track, some squeal after they have been track used but no real safety issues.
Have a great day and stay safe.
Steve

 

[boro92]

WOW XP24/16 is needed with our heavy cars?
This is good info for me to hear. I wasnt aware that 12/10 would wear out so swiftly.
And not only that - you're mentioning solid modulation even with PSS rubbers. Now this is something I'll need to look into. Arg. Why is pad choice so difficult

 

[boro92]

Guys, how long are the carbotechs lasting you?
I'm reading that they wear quickly compared to smoething like a Hawk DTC70

 

[dabossinnne]

Pads are a 'consumable', along with brake fluid and rotors, tires and oil. Of course, there are lots of variables regarding pad life, but getting two whole track weekends driving fairly aggressively out of a set of aggressive pads is probably pretty realistic, considering our fairly heavy cars.

For reference, I got 'only' 2 weekends out of my last set of Pagid RST2 fronts, but the RS56s on the rear still have about 50% of usable pad left (this is a fantastic combo braking performance-wise, BTW). But in those 2 weekends I ran something like 6 30-minute sessions, in addition to the usual 20 minute sessions ... in other words, a lot of track time ... and I am fairly hard on the brakes anyway (I have the LS brake cooling kit and I turn OFF TC and AT). Stock rotors are looking good... very little wear so far.

Pete tells me this pad wear rate is pretty normal, but as with most things, your mileage may vary.

 

[Torsion]

Count me in.

I've done 3 or 4 track days (5 x 20 min session, HPDE, intermediate, square pirelli pzeros) on the stock Brembo pads. I'm one of the slower intermediate guys at our tracks, so I guess I'm still sort of easy on brakes. Never had a problem with them though, unlike my driving buddy who glazed his Carbotechs and went right off the end of a straightaway. :/

I've just installed Pagid RS29/RS56 (Pete's recommendation) with hopes of getting a better tracking experience, which includes having more confidence in my pads as I get quicker. I've got a track day tomorrow (Motorsport Ranch, Cresson, TX) so I'll know soon enough how these pads feel.

Couple of notes:

* My stock rear pads looked fine after 4 track days, 50% left. My fronts were down to about 2 mm with those track days and 1 year of daily driving.

* The RS29 front pads are each about 1 mm thicker than new Brembo pads. This concerned me a bit because it felt like a tight fit in the caliper since I had new rotors too. Seems fine, in that when I'm driving around town I can hear the pads drag a little but the temps of the pads don't seem more than 20 degrees higher than ambient.

* I wasn't too fond of the little notch in the top of the pagid front's backing plate, where the Brembo "spring" touches the backing plate of the pads. That little notch makes it so that the spring plate could potentially get stuck on the edge of the notch. So now I feel like I've got to make sure that spring is dead-center on the backing plates, and I'll check it to make sure it doesn't move. Maybe it doesn't matter, but it didn't seem ideal

Yay track day!

 

[pufferfish]

Sako
You will enjoy running the carobs vs stock or hawk pads. Be careful on the XP12/10 combo for wear rates if you are a hard breaker even on street tires that combo is reall for lighter cars, I've run them and performance is great but the left side, especially the rear wore after 2.5 days at VIR last year. This year I am running XP24/16 with better wear and better performance on Michelin PSS or Pirelli slick tires. No over torque or modulation issues. I also leave them on for street driving, I don't daily drive the car but have no problems for Sunday drives or trips to and from the track, some squeal after they have been track used but no real safety issues.
Have a great day and stay safe.
Steve

I am a bit surprised that you have been running XP24's already as they aren't even officially released yet! I just got educated on them today and they sound like THE pad to have for a hard driven Boss on R compounds. I have a couple sets on order and hope to try them out before the end of the year. The carbotech's have generally been a rotor friendly pad at the expense of longevity, but it seems they have it worked out now with the 24's!