Track Pads for First HPDE?

[Dirtrider372]

New member here. I recently purchased low mileage 2014 GT Track Pack and just registered for my first HPDE at Oregon Raceway Park in August. I'm currently planning on installing new stainless lines and flushing with high temp fluid. Other than that the brakes are stock brembos with Boss pads and GT500 rotors in the rear. I've been looking around on here and it seems like most people are running either G-Loc, which seem to crack, and also carbotech with some Hawk DTC-60 also mixed in. This is where i can't seem to make up my mind, since this is my first track day and likely won't be driving 10/10ths, would i see fade pretty quickly with the boss pads or would they be fine? Does the group recommend a full on track pad like i previously mentioned or would a set of hawk HP-plus be just fine? Heat is obviously the killer so a ducting kit from someone like vorshlag would do wonders but i'm not sure if i want to start cutting apart my fender liners/grill just yet. What would your recommended pad be for this application?

 

[Norm Peterson]

HP+ isn't really much of a track pad. Good bite, but even Hawk cuts their use off at a much lower temperature (800°F or about 425°C) than any of their other "race" formulations. They might work for rear brakes only, if carefully paired with something further up Hawk's food chain for the front.

HP+ sure isn't much good in street duty (been there, unreasonably abrasive on your rotors, aside from noise and dust that you might be able to ignore).

There might be something in the Ferodo lineup for you, I just don't have any experience with that name.



FWIW, I've experienced cracking but not laminar separation in the lower Carbotech/G-loc track formulations (8 and 10 level).


Norm

 

[Sjohnson1800]

I agree with norm the hp+ are terrible for the street they eat rotors. But for my first couple of track days I used them and they were okay while I was learning I still have a set and keep them as spares. But yes they don’t take heat as well as a glock or carbotech but I don’t think on your first hpde event you will be going super late on the brakes. But for the sake of not wasting money I would get a set of glock r10 or glock r12 leave the rear pads stock for now and have fun!

 

[Dirtrider372]

HP+ isn't really much of a track pad. Good bite, but even Hawk cuts their use off at a much lower temperature (800°F or about 425°C) than any of their other "race" formulations. They might work for rear brakes only, if carefully paired with something further up Hawk's food chain for the front.

HP+ sure isn't much good in street duty (been there, unreasonably abrasive on your rotors, aside from noise and dust that you might be able to ignore).

There might be something in the Ferodo lineup for you, I just don't have any experience with that name.

View attachment 66561

FWIW, I've experienced cracking but not laminar separation in the lower Carbotech/G-loc track formulations (8 and 10 level).


Norm

Thanks for the info Norm! I think I’m just going to get a set of Gloc R12 and go from there.

 

[Dirtrider372]

I agree with norm the hp+ are terrible for the street they eat rotors. But for my first couple of track days I used them and they were okay while I was learning I still have a set and keep them as spares. But yes they don’t take heat as well as a glock or carbotech but I don’t think on your first hpde event you will be going super late on the brakes. But for the sake of not wasting money I would get a set of glock r10 or glock r12 leave the rear pads stock for now and have fun!

I’m going to order a set of R12 and see how it goes! The Gloc pads aren’t crazy expensive.

 

[EF1]

I ran hawk HPS for my first few events. I was running them on the street and figured I had to start somewhere. I prolonger their use with the addition of cooling ducts. I didn't realize how bad the pads were until I went to G-Loc R10 front and R8 rears. These were good for a few more events. When I started exceeding their temperature range ( and they needed replacing) I moved up to R12 front R 10 rears. This set up has been good for the last couple years.

 

[CarGuy21]

HP+ isn't really much of a track pad. Good bite, but even Hawk cuts their use off at a much lower temperature (800°F or about 425°C) than any of their other "race" formulations. They might work for rear brakes only, if carefully paired with something further up Hawk's food chain for the front.

HP+ sure isn't much good in street duty (been there, unreasonably abrasive on your rotors, aside from noise and dust that you might be able to ignore).

There might be something in the Ferodo lineup for you, I just don't have any experience with that name.

View attachment 66561

FWIW, I've experienced cracking but not laminar separation in the lower Carbotech/G-loc track formulations (8 and 10 level).


Norm

Ferrodo makes the compound for the stock pads.

 

[CarGuy21]

New member here. I recently purchased low mileage 2014 GT Track Pack and just registered for my first HPDE at Oregon Raceway Park in August. I'm currently planning on installing new stainless lines and flushing with high temp fluid. Other than that the brakes are stock brembos with Boss pads and GT500 rotors in the rear. I've been looking around on here and it seems like most people are running either G-Loc, which seem to crack, and also carbotech with some Hawk DTC-60 also mixed in. This is where i can't seem to make up my mind, since this is my first track day and likely won't be driving 10/10ths, would i see fade pretty quickly with the boss pads or would they be fine? Does the group recommend a full on track pad like i previously mentioned or would a set of hawk HP-plus be just fine? Heat is obviously the killer so a ducting kit from someone like vorshlag would do wonders but i'm not sure if i want to start cutting apart my fender liners/grill just yet. What would your recommended pad be for this application?

View attachment 66560

I run G-Loc with no issues. Their 12 compound up front and their 10 on the rears. You could give them a call to see what they recommend. Ask for Danny, the owner.

As others have said, the Hawk HP+ is not a good choice for the track.

I also run G-Loc’s Street/Autocross compound square on the car for daily driving. Very happy with their pads.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Ferrodo makes the compound for the stock pads.

Thought so. Most likely their DS2500 formulation or some minor variation.

Other Ferodo formulations and their mu-temperature curves

Norm

 

[JDee]

It is DS2500 for sure, got that from their retail sales channel guy. They're not a bad pad to learn on, but once you really get going they start to give it up pretty badly.

 

[CarGuy21]

It is DS2500 for sure, got that from their retail sales channel guy. They're not a bad pad to learn on, but once you really get going they start to give it up pretty badly.

In my experience stock pads are no match for track duty and their use there should be avoided. They'll fade and definitely won't stand up to the abuse. A pad with a track oriented compound that can withstand the elevated temperature generated during lapping sessions is a much much better choice. I would hate to see someone use the stock pads to "learn" on and have something bad happen which can and will with little or no warning.

Personal experience: In 2012 I had an opportunity to drive my Mini John Cooper Works at Blackhawk Farms Raceway on short notice. I didn't have track pads for the car and I couldn't get them within the timeframe I needed them for the track day. I ran what I had on the car which were Hawk HP+ or HP Sport - I don't recall exactly. The pads were an upgrade from the stock pads. During my last session going into turn 7 the peddle went all the way to the floor. This was completely unexpected as there was no warning on other areas of the track. I was able to pump up the brakes, kept the car straight and slowed enough to make the turn albeit into some of the run off area. The brake system did not completely recover for several minutes after I had reached the paddock and parked the car.

The Mustang is a much heavier car and even though the braking system is quite capable I will NEVER EVER run another car on track with stock or street pads again.

YMMV

 

[JDee]

I ran those DS2500s with zero problems for half a dozen track days until I got into big sticky tires and full suspension kit. After all they are Ferodos, and they make very very good brake pads.

For the average person who is just starting out and learning they are fine, you just have to learn what they can and cannot do and live within those boundaries. People also make the mistake of going to race pads that are designed for full on racing and they can't get the heat into them to make them work and that's just as bad as the opposite end of the spectrum.

Not everyone needs to spend money on racing brakes and associated costs just to find out if they want to do track days, for those people these DS2500s are way better than what you'd get on most sporty cars from the factory, certainly they are light years better than the HP+ you mentioned.

These are not exactly a "stock or street pad", they're kind of a hybrid that is OK at both but not great at either, a standard compromise. I've been doing this since 1989 and kind of know how to manage brakes, coming from an endurance racing background where people who were hard on brakes finished many laps down.....

 

[JAJ]

In my experience stock pads are no match for track duty and their use there should be avoided. They'll fade and definitely won't stand up to the abuse. A pad with a track oriented compound that can withstand the elevated temperature generated during lapping sessions is a much much better choice. I would hate to see someone use the stock pads to "learn" on and have something bad happen which can and will with little or no warning.

Personal experience: In 2012 I had an opportunity to drive my Mini John Cooper Works at Blackhawk Farms Raceway on short notice. I didn't have track pads for the car and I couldn't get them within the timeframe I needed them for the track day. I ran what I had on the car which were Hawk HP+ or HP Sport - I don't recall exactly. The pads were an upgrade from the stock pads. During my last session going into turn 7 the peddle went all the way to the floor. This was completely unexpected as there was no warning on other areas of the track. I was able to pump up the brakes, kept the car straight and slowed enough to make the turn albeit into some of the run off area. The brake system did not completely recover for several minutes after I had reached the paddock and parked the car.

The Mustang is a much heavier car and even though the braking system is quite capable I will NEVER EVER run another car on track with stock or street pads again.

YMMV

Your comments on stock pads are good for all Ford products except the ones starting in 2015 from Ford Performance. The Ford GT, the GT350 and the GT500 can run all day at the track on factory pads. The qualification testing for the GT350 included more than one 24 hour flat-out test drive on a track at something like 98% of max capability. They only stopped for gas, driver changes, tires and brake pads. I expect the same is true for the other two FP cars. The point is though, that regardless of what the pads on these cars are, the combination of massive calipers and rotors keeps the temperatures under control. Products from Ford itself don't get this level of performance or testing - they're well engineered, but they're aimed at a different audience, and it shouldn't be a surprise that you have to run upgraded brake pads for track use.

 

[EF1]

In my experience stock pads are no match for track duty and their use there should be avoided. They'll fade and definitely won't stand up to the abuse. A pad with a track oriented compound that can withstand the elevated temperature generated during lapping sessions is a much much better choice. I would hate to see someone use the stock pads to "learn" on and have something bad happen which can and will with little or no warning.

Personal experience: In 2012 I had an opportunity to drive my Mini John Cooper Works at Blackhawk Farms Raceway on short notice. I didn't have track pads for the car and I couldn't get them within the timeframe I needed them for the track day. I ran what I had on the car which were Hawk HP+ or HP Sport - I don't recall exactly. The pads were an upgrade from the stock pads. During my last session going into turn 7 the peddle went all the way to the floor. This was completely unexpected as there was no warning on other areas of the track. I was able to pump up the brakes, kept the car straight and slowed enough to make the turn albeit into some of the run off area. The brake system did not completely recover for several minutes after I had reached the paddock and parked the car.

The Mustang is a much heavier car and even though the braking system is quite capable I will NEVER EVER run another car on track with stock or street pads again.

YMMV

If your peddle went to the floor and you were able to get some brake back with pumping it sounds like a fluid issue and not necessarily the pads. The pads most likely contributed to the fluid temperatures due to staying on the brakes longer to scrub speed with pads not up to the task.

 

[welltal89]

I'd check with the racing schools that have mustangs in their fleet. The ST octane academy used the stock pads (fiesta at least) and we're totally fine. I think bondurant school used these cars, check with them?

 

[gwilliams38]

If your peddle went to the floor and you were able to get some brake back with pumping it sounds like a fluid issue and not necessarily the pads. The pads most likely contributed to the fluid temperatures due to staying on the brakes longer to scrub speed with pads not up to the task.

This is the correct answer.

 

[CarGuy21]

I ran those DS2500s with zero problems for half a dozen track days until I got into big sticky tires and full suspension kit. After all they are Ferodos, and they make very very good brake pads.

For the average person who is just starting out and learning they are fine, you just have to learn what they can and cannot do and live within those boundaries. People also make the mistake of going to race pads that are designed for full on racing and they can't get the heat into them to make them work and that's just as bad as the opposite end of the spectrum.

Not everyone needs to spend money on racing brakes and associated costs just to find out if they want to do track days, for those people these DS2500s are way better than what you'd get on most sporty cars from the factory, certainly they are light years better than the HP+ you mentioned.

These are not exactly a "stock or street pad", they're kind of a hybrid that is OK at both but not great at either, a standard compromise. I've been doing this since 1989 and kind of know how to manage brakes, coming from an endurance racing background where people who were hard on brakes finished many laps down.....

While your experience is what it is, I don’t agree with your approach or advice to the OP. I would not run the stock pads at the track. We can agree to disagree on this one.

You can get enough heat into the track pads. And the pads I run are not “full on race pads.” As I’ve said YMMV

Cheers!!

 

[CarGuy21]

This is the correct answer.

Running Motul 600 so it’s never been and issu on other cars.

 

[gwilliams38]

Running Motul 600 so it’s never been and issu on other cars.

Weird things can happen, but also weird perceptions can happen, sometimes they happen together. In general pedal to the floor is a fluid problem (if it isn't something worse) while relatively firm pedal but no or inadequate braking is a pad/rotor surface interaction problem as with pad gassing/fade. I should've said "this is the likely answer" though.

 

[Dirtrider372]

Thank you all for the suggestions! I ended up going with Gloc R12 in the front and R10 in the rear. They performed flawlessly! I could smell the brakes a couple times while on track so they definitely got hot, but no issues. Swapping them back to street pads and new rotors this weekend. I’m curious how the pads look. Hopefully no cracking or delamination on the pads as I’ve seen in some other posts.