Track wheels, studs, and oversized lug nuts

[twistedneck]

Right now for minor track use I have a street wheel - the Vorshlag - D Force 18x10. Its super tough surviving not just track punishment and heat but Michigan roads! The only problem is the lugs - they are the super small type that need a special thin wall socket that I keep fracturing.

I noticed on the Roush PWC car they have no clearance issues and use huge lug nuts and are able to work the air sockets super fast NASCAR style..

I know the studs are longer, but are they the same diameter as normal Mustang? and what lug nuts are they using? They look strong and repeatable and easy to loosen / tighten. I'm rebuilding a rear end right now and its time to decide on studs. Also what is the pink paint for on the lugs and studs?

Thanks, Jeff

Front

Rear

 

[VoodooBoss]

They use a special lug and Rehagan, Capaldi and Watson will most likely have them. Those wheels are CCW's and you get what you pay for. The lugs are thicker as well and have the nub on the end. Rob aka @blacksheep-1 explained this to me last year at Laguna Seca. For CTSCC they glue the lug nuts to the wheels and the longer stub on the end keeps the nuts from falling off when doing tire changes during a pit stop.

I'm going to move this to his forum so he sees it and can give a better explanation.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Those studs are 5/8 inch with a nut that has a 1 inch outside fitment. The studs can be had in various lengths, they are also welded to the hib to prevent them from coming loose. The stud has sort of a "bullet" or non threaded end on it, so when you shove the wheel on the nut actually hang on that "bullet" non threaded end. What happens is that you glue the nut on the wheel, and the wheels will usually have painted index marks on them that are easily visible, as the wheel goes on, it defeats the glue and stays on the stud.
The wheel is then tightened with a special flank drive socket and high speed impact wrench. The socket is designed so you can't miss and contains a spring to eject nuts when removing them. The nuts are also coated in teflon.
The procedure is to "loosen 5, and tighten 6" meaning you take the 5 nuts off, remove the wheel, install the new wheel and tighten "6", since the first nut started will have to be re tightened at the end.
This setup allows you to use different spacers, offsets, and what have you to adjust track, without the fear of breaking a stud. Like anything else in racing it is expensive, with the socket and not including the impact wrench probably around $250 per wheel.
Hope that helps

 

[twistedneck]

Those studs are 5/8 inch with a nut that has a 1 inch outside fitment. The studs can be had in various lengths, they are also welded to the hib to prevent them from coming loose. The stud has sort of a "bullet" or non threaded end on it, so when you shove the wheel on the nut actually hang on that "bullet" non threaded end. What happens is that you glue the nut on the wheel, and the wheels will usually have painted index marks on them that are easily visible, as the wheel goes on, it defeats the glue and stays on the stud.
The wheel is then tightened with a special flank drive socket and high speed impact wrench. The socket is designed so you can't miss and contains a spring to eject nuts when removing them. The nuts are also coated in teflon.
The procedure is to "loosen 5, and tighten 6" meaning you take the 5 nuts off, remove the wheel, install the new wheel and tighten "6", since the first nut started will have to be re tightened at the end.
This setup allows you to use different spacers, offsets, and what have you to adjust track, without the fear of breaking a stud. Like anything else in racing it is expensive, with the socket and not including the impact wrench probably around $250 per wheel.
Hope that helps

OK, after reading this and feeling a sense of humility, I am not going to take the step to full competition level yet.

As a stop gap, would standard size ARP fasteners work with some kind of larger wrench size lug nut and a set of wheels that will accept this large lug? the main issue i'm having is frequent replacement of tires on my Vorshlag D-force wheels is eating up the tiny lugs and the thin socket adapters - I've been through 4 already maybe more. If CCW is the only wheel with clearance for a larger lug I have no issues with that.. i'd like to have 11" wheels front and back, my front coilover setup should clear it no problem.

 

[F.D. Sako]

I replace lug nuts every season, I look at them as consumable items now.
Usually lug nuts are made out of softer materials compared to studs, so when you cross thread the nuts, you wont damage the studs. In our case, the lug nuts go through many cycles, so the threads will eventually wear down and result in additional play during tightening.

Ford racing lug nuts are pretty large (FRPP M-1012-G), you could look into them. FYI, they do not fit my F14s.

 

[blacksheep-1]

There are several wheel/stud/nut combinations that work, we just prefer CCW because we beat the living fire out of them, I think BBS also will work, not sure about Forgedtrue, but I'm sure they make some style that will work. The big issue is getting the 1 inch lug nut on the wheel, you need a lot of space for that.

 

[twistedneck]

I replace lug nuts every season, I look at them as consumable items now.
Usually lug nuts are made out of softer materials compared to studs, so when you cross thread the nuts, you wont damage the studs. In our case, the lug nuts go through many cycles, so the threads will eventually wear down and result in additional play during tightening.

Ford racing lug nuts are pretty large (FRPP M-1012-G), you could look into them. FYI, they do not fit my F14s.

Good find. Those are the stock 1/2-20 size but have a wider socket. 13/16 vs the 3/4 I have now. That's the route for me considering economy, 302s uses them, and they hopefully will hold up.
I find this quote from Master Shake spot in..
http://www.hark.com/clips/hyddpzygqm-income-bracket

There are several wheel/stud/nut combinations that work, we just prefer CCW because we beat the living fire out of them, I think BBS also will work, not sure about Forgedtrue, but I'm sure they make some style that will work. The big issue is getting the 1 inch lug nut on the wheel, you need a lot of space for that.

I think all new front hubs would have to machined too.. The 1" lugs look correct on the 5/8 studs.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Here's some of the pics from the car, these are spares with the nuts

 

[twistedneck]

blacksheep-1, I spotted this Mustang at the Ford performance building parking lot. Its a 2012 GT with BBS World Challenge 18x10 wheels. Notice how much clearance the wheels have? Then I spotted it, boom! the huge yellow lug nut! I don't know if its a 1" lug on the factory 1/2" stud or is it the 5/8" can you tell?

I think he bought the wheels and had the work done at Rehagen racing - great place to take your car, they do excellent work and you get double for your money there - the parts are cheap, install clean, and you get to probe Dean Martin's brain and mastery of S197 much like yourself.

 

[wwilde001]

blacksheep-1, I spotted this Mustang at the Ford performance building parking lot. Its a 2012 GT with BBS World Challenge 18x10 wheels. Notice how much clearance the wheels have? Then I spotted it, boom! the huge yellow lug nut! I don't know if its a 1" lug on the factory 1/2" stud or is it the 5/8" can you tell?

The BBS 18x10" wheels are designed for the 5/8" stud setup, but can be used with a 1/2" stud with AllStar 44102 lug nuts which use a 1" socket. I suspect that is what you saw. There is plenty of clearance for the lug nuts with these wheels. I have two sets of these wheels for the track and have had zero issues. I think someone said this earlier in this thread, you get what you pay for.

 

[twistedneck]

The BBS 18x10" wheels are designed for the 5/8" stud setup, but can be used with a 1/2" stud with AllStar 44102 lug nuts which use a 1" socket. I suspect that is what you saw. There is plenty of clearance for the lug nuts with these wheels. I have two sets of these wheels for the track and have had zero issues. I think someone said this earlier in this thread, you get what you pay for.

That sounds like the way to go a quality wheel with excellent clearance.. What do you think about running a 305 square setup like the z28? I was contemplating 18x11.5" wheels, know of any 305/18 slicks about 26.5" tall?

 

[blacksheep-1]

As I recall, we run 10 or 10.5 on the IMSA cars, 11 on the PWC.....or maybe it's 10.5 on the PWC and 11s on the SCCA T1 car, which is basically the same car, it just depends on the rules package, the IMSA car runs a small (too small IMO) 275x45x18, the PWC runs 305x660x18 on the front and 305x 680 x18 on the rear, out T2 cars run 295s and the T1 runs 315s all the way around.