S197 Transformation of Sweet Lorraine Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

[JDee]

Or at least get the battery load tested. Lead acid batteries rest at 2.25 volts per cell, so it should be above 13 volts, that's temperature linked though as well. These cars have a lot of parasitic draw and tend to draw the battery voltage down a lot and batteries don't like to be kept at low voltage, it kills them quickly.

 

[TymeSlayer]

Good idea. But I must add that we have tried jump starting under these conditions and that didn't work either. (We couldn't push start it either)

I did get a picture of the starter this morning and it looks like only the solenoid is wrapped from the factory.
Ignore that pile of road debris on the a-arm. It a souvenir from High Plains Raceway.

 

[TMSBOSS]

**edit, I think the 12.75 cold is OK, (should be above 12.6), but still think it could likely be an internal short when warm.

Agree with this. Hoping to help you eliminate Simple fixes first.

Ignore that pile of road debris on the a-arm. It a souvenir from High Plains Raceway.

They have this much dirt "On" the track??

 

[Coz]

I guess the dealer was right and it's not a PCM issue. The car just doesn't like it when it gets too hot.

While it's good you don't have to wait overnight to start it, why do you think that automatically eliminates the PCM as an issue? Maybe its just it that needs to cool off.

 

[TymeSlayer]

That was our first thought. The Ford dealer ran a diagnostic on the PCM and told me the unit is functioning properly. Not that I trust them 100 percent but I'm going to run through other options before the $$$ it'll cost to have it replaced and reprogrammed. I'm going to replace the battery first and if that doesn't work, I'll replace the starter. All the wiring I can see look solid and undamaged.

 

[Coz]

Wouldn't it be simpler, quicker, and cheaper to try to cool off the PCU before doing the other stuff?

 

[JDee]

FWIW, I run a tiny Braille battery. Earlier this year I accidentally left video stuff plugged in between sessions and that drained the Braille to the point the solenoid didn't even click. Tried to boost it from the stock battery, no sign of life. Tried to boost it from my buddy's running car, also no sign of life. Got some sturdy lads to push bump it and it fired right up. After the session it was fine and started on the small battery for the rest of the day without a problem.

I've been street driving the car to break in a new clutch and that stock battery that couldn't boost the small battery has been completely fine starting the car. Point is, not taking a boost from another car doesn't necessarily mean much in terms of the health of the battery. For whatever reason, these cars seem to be fussy as hell about jump starting them.

 

[cholmes1]

FWIW, I run a tiny Braille battery. Earlier this year I accidentally left video stuff plugged in between sessions and that drained the Braille to the point the solenoid didn't even click. Tried to boost it from the stock battery, no sign of life. Tried to boost it from my buddy's running car, also no sign of life. Got some sturdy lads to push bump it and it fired right up. After the session it was fine and started on the small battery for the rest of the day without a problem.

I've been street driving the car to break in a new clutch and that stock battery that couldn't boost the small battery has been completely fine starting the car. Point is, not taking a boost from another car doesn't necessarily mean much in terms of the health of the battery. For whatever reason, these cars seem to be fussy as hell about jump starting them.

I had the same jump start issue last year with mine and it was north of 90 degrees. Only time the car has ever not started. Tried jumping it, push starting, and replacing the battery all of which did nothing. Had to flatbed the Boss to the dealer where they ‘replaced’ the Battery Control Module. Knowing the car and parts well I called BS and asked to see the old/broken one and they stated it was already thrown out. I still have no clue what they did or what on the car was actually wrong but the BCM fix did the trick. Perhaps a random fuse but all looked good to me

Either way, the Boss now starts fine regardless of temps. Had it out last week for a few hours. A black hood and over 95 ambient, no issues.

Good luck, Tyme. Hopefully the gremlins will cook themselves

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Cholmes1:

Interesting post as I had a similar problem with one of my Mercedes. The BCM lost its ground to the body of the car thru corrosion, (rust on the body mounting bolt threads). On the Benz the BCM box was off the battery negative or ground wire located about 12” from the battery in the trunk.

But where is a BCM located on a 2012 Mustang Boss 302?

I’ve yet to find mine.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Tyme:

Load test your battery before you just replace it. At 12.4v cold it may well be fine. Remember your Alternator will be charging at 14.2 volts at Idle but if more than that it evaporates the electrolyte thru the battery vents resultant in a dry cell or 2.

After reading thru this thread, I have to agree with looking closely at your starter motor. Once removed, look closely at the starter wiring connections to the starter solenoid. This may well be where I found my bad OEM connection during my Kooks header install, (wire connection looked good, but was only hanging on by a thread or 2.)

Once you remove the starter, you can have that tested too before you spend money to replace it.

It’s up to you, but don’t jump in to cardiac bypass surgery by replacing the PCM, IYKWIM.

Pull the starter, have it tested. Remember, your starter motor location is as hot as it gets on your U-Code engine. With Kooks Shorty Headers.

PS: My starter solenoid & starter motor are both warped with that silver heat material.
Good luck & keep us posted.

 

[302BOB]

Tyme, Any progress on Sweet Lorraine's troubles??..I wish you all the luck to find out what's going on here!!!!....Temperature affecting a car is something new to me.It's most likely a two step problem , where heat causes something else to fail...maybe three???.....Please let us know how you make out..................This is a serious problem and you know I'm not singing to the choir, here!!!!

 

[TymeSlayer]

Car did pretty much the same with a new (Borrowed) battery installed. Started up every hour from 9 AM until the temps neared 90 degrees around 2PM. Then nothing. Car wouldn't start until things cooled off around 8 PM and about 85 Degrees. This was a day long experiment and only the cold beer made it tolerable.

Here's the Battery Fuse breaker (AKA Battery Control Module) that is attached to the positive battery cable. Not sure how it can be tested.



Next thing to tackle will be the starter. Again, not something I'm sure how to test myself so I'll have someone look at it. Dave, @302 Hi Pro, I know I've never touched the starter motor in all these years and as you can see from my picture in the above post #222, only the solenoid was wrapped. I may have to get something like below regardless if it the starter motor or not.

 

[TMSBOSS]

This part??

2011-2014 Ford Mustang Circuit Breaker BR3Z-14526-AA | South Florida Ford Parts

2011-2014 Ford Mustang Circuit Breaker BR3Z-14526-AA

www.southfloridafordparts.com

 

[TymeSlayer]

That's the part Tracy. Thanks. It's so inexpensive, I'm just ordering one in case. Grant would be so proud of me!

 

[Mad Hatter]

Could it be a problem with the starter motor?? Maybe its jamming and that does not give you a error code?? Maybe time to put the smaller Ford performance starter in..... (they are easier to install!)

 

[TymeSlayer]

@Mad Hatter - Do you happen to have the part number for this smaller motor?

 

[Mad Hatter]

@Mad Hatter - Do you happen to have the part number for this smaller motor?

Here you go! MPN# M-11000-C50

Ford Performance Parts M-11000-C50 Ford Performance Parts Starters | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Ford Performance Parts Starters with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Starters at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[12coBoss]

Here you go! MPN# M-11000-C50

Ford Performance Parts M-11000-C50 Ford Performance Parts Starters | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Ford Performance Parts Starters with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Starters at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

That's the start I went too. I couldn't get that heat shield on mine, so just bought heat tape and did the best I could, but no issues after installing that started. I ran 1 7/8" kooks long tubes, so plenty of heat in that area.

Further details on the issue I had on my starter: wish I had one on hand to look at it closer as I do not remember for sure where that failure was for sure. All I can remember is that a solder point I believe it was on the wire going from the solenoid to the start was bad. Just looking at it it was hard to identify it was the issue as it was still intact, but hanging on by a thread. Mine was not due to air temperature, but after I would drive it for more than 5 minutes it wouldn't start. Let it cool down then it would run, or maybe turn over a little bit.

If you replace the start have fun with that top bolt , I know I pulled mine a half dozen times and I am sure it took me about 20-30 minutes on that one darn bolt every time, and probably made up new cuss words every time.

 

[TymeSlayer]

In the write up on Summit, it says:
"Ford Performance Parts mini high-torque starters are a great addition to your car. They feature a high-output motor with internal gear reduction that provides more cranking power than stock, yet is 30 percent smaller. Their smaller size brings the weight down 5 lbs. from OE starters and provides a great deal more header clearance. These are the perfect starters for vehicles with high-compression engines and tight-fitting headers. Instructions and special battery cables are included, but you must use a firewall solenoid."

What's it mean to use a firewall soleniod? Isn't it attached to the starter?

 

[67GTA]

This is from the Ford Performance site:

• Must use diode protected fenderwell solenoid when used in non-production applications. (call the Ford Performance Techline at 800-367-3788 for more details)

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-11000-C50

This would lead me to believe it doesn’t apply to the Mustang fitment?