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Video cameras

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captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,954
1,698
Phoenix, Az
Time to annually review the state of cameras for racing use:

I have a gopro hero4 black and a yi 4k. I've owned a gopro hero session and hero 7 black as well. The hero 7 was the worst of the bunch as it lacked persistent settings for spot metering and if you forgot to turn off the motion stabilization it was a mess; but had great image quality and ok-sound quality (The hero4 black is the best of the bunch). The hero4 required a motherboard replacement this year, and the yi has awful audio quality but has been somewhat more reliable than the go pros. I want to relegate the existing cameras to be secondary units or video parts under the car like the suspension or alternative angles like footwells, etc.



The goals are:

  1. Primary forward facing camera for NASA compliance
  2. Reliability. I’ve lost so much race footage to “gopros doing gopro things” (freezes, buffer overruns, heat, cold, batteries, inability for chargers to keep up with running power needs).
  3. Image/sound quality. I want to start doing some 4k stuff, HDR is starting to show up in some cameras and storage is currently cheap. I have cold shoe mics should onboard not cut it
  4. Nice to have: a manual wired trigger. Wireless triggering, voice triggering tend to be flakey ways. Current GoPro’s need for you to manually set the exposure on the camera from the rear LCD is a massive pain.
  5. Data integration not a concern, I have a smooth and reasonable post workflow using racerender to integrate data for now. (see picture below)
The cameras I’ve looked at:

  • AIM Smartycam HD rev 2.whatever – decade-old imaging technology, worst in class picture and sound quality. Dead nuts reliable, able to do data integration (with some limits) on the fly; there’s not a more reliable option. Costs $1,300-1,500 after wiring, mount and integration parts. Hardwired power for reliability.

  • GoPro Hero 8: the latest camera from Gopro is minutes away from firesale, already sub $300. Arguably best picture quality, though the build quality is a concern. No spot-metering capability (nor a persistent setting for it), same gopro reliability, requires $80 “mod” to allow external microphone, support is non-existant. Considered a disposable/consumable among racers. Would require leaving another camera next to it for shooting redundancy. No wired trigger. Devil I know option. USB-C power more reliable than old mini/micro A 2A power supplies.

  • DJi OSMO Action camera – HDR support, color not as nice as gopro, audio not quite as nice, but easier integration with external microphones and color easy to correct in post. 4k HDR a nice feature, along with serviceable lens. Has a front facing LCD which is nice for in-car use, compatibility with existing gopro mounts. Relative unknown on software, did outscore the gopro on some hot weather testing. USB-C for power, which enables me to power it from the car reasonably. Spot meter is the default mode. Price inline with Gopro.

  • Others? Sony RX0 II, Yi 4k+,
1588979508234.png
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
725
1,081
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
San Diego
My biggest gripe with the GoPro Hero 7 Black is that the thing gets pretty hot on its own, and when it's 100+ out, I ... honestly don't even know why I bother powering it on, the outcome is pretty much guaranteed fail, at least for mine. I think that alone is why I'm not going to the 8... or just yet.
edit - Disregard the Yi stuff I said, was looking at some old feature comparisons, and looks like they've left the action cam game. --https://www.yitechnology.com/-- Shows Home and Dash cams, only way to buy the Yi is if you have a direct link from them.
I guess that it's time for the Sony FDR-X3000.
 
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I LOVE my DJI Osmo Action. I've been very happy with it as an all around camera. I like that it's waterproof without the need for a case which was great for vacation.

I use it usually facing rearward and use the crappy HD camera that came with my car for the forward. I have some original GoPros that are in need of replacement, but honestly they still work fine, they're just old. I'll probably use them with an external lightsource for some footwork cameras and driver cameras.

Most likely I will get another DJI Osmo to provide forward facing video, but like you was considering the AIM for its data logging abilities. The reality though is that with post production and a separate data logger there really is no need for an AIM. Not at that price point and not with that video quality.
 
Hey guys, did some searching and found this thread. Hopefully I can find more info or get pointed to someone with more experience than I.

Much like OP I have had several issues using GoPro products. Their app sucks and it's not supported anymore. My Hero5 is unreliable on a good day. My lovely wife got me a Hero8 but its still in the package
as I just don't want to continue the same path. Or if I do, find a work around to fit my goals.

I have used my Cel phone with apps like Harry's Lap Timer Petrolhead Edition v.23.0.13 (which was cool in the beginning until a lot of issues started to pop up) and recently I've been using HPtuners Track Addict
and rendering in RaceRender. That was an OK solution but I've been experiencing issues with the GPS synching up when at Tracks like Thunderhill. If GPS doesn't sync then I can't record telemetry (obviously).

I have been looking into other product's in an attempt to have a reliable video & telemetry gathering system. I'm wondering if the 2 systems below will experience the same issues with gathering data.

Waylens: https://www.waylens.com/horizon

Road Keeper: https://www.race-keeper.com/product/road-keeper/

OR... If there is a way to get track telemetry synched onto GoPro video that could be an option but again the 2 apps I currently have on my phone are less than reliable.

Does anyone have any experience with these issues or with the products listed above? Thanks for your help on this!

-Todd
 
6,363
8,189
If I were you, I'd call the guys at Phoenix and see what they used, as I recall, they had 360 degree coverage, steering inputs, rpm, mph. G meter both right, left braking and acceleration and probably some more stuff I forget, it could all be displayed on the video at the same time.
This isn't the most complex one we used, but it's a decent one.


The Porsches were fully instrumented and there was so much crap going on that you could never use any of them in the car by the driver, it was all for going over afterwards. It was also real time and we used to watch it from the pits.
 

captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,954
1,698
Phoenix, Az
View attachment 18001

You might want to give Korh Motorsport a call. That seems a good deal.

Probably pulled from a PWC car. I used to have to maintain the one in our TTRS GTS car, thing was a nightmare to operate and get data out of, but it worked reliably. Software was super clunky.



An update on my end:
I picked up a Hero 8 black and DJI osmo action camera. So far they're pretty equivalent (the hero 8 works well for audio using the "media mod" housing). However, I set them up side by side and just run both cameras for redundancy.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
725
1,081
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
San Diego
I also forgot to add that I have friends at GoPro, as I live by the founders/HQ and got a GoPro 8, and while I'm kinda ticked that they moved the USB to the same door as the battery and storage, the sound quality is nicely improved. As I'm running windowless, the wind killed just about every video I took with the 7. I found that the Belkin Rockstar would work in the same USB-C port, which then allows for an external mic as well as the USB-C. Still trying to figure out if I can retain some of the video stabilization improvements but without it shifting the picture as one's going through a heavy/banked turn, but need some more time in with it to find that out. 3 day weekend ahead, I'll try to find a place I can test without getting arrested.

Road Keeper looks to be decent, given its price point and its feature set. Their offering is eerily similar to my former employer's commercial fleet product. You get 2 1080p30 cameras outward and inward facing, and some basic gyro (mph, vert/lat g-force, lat/long, elev) features and some software to dress up and combine them for output. It'll be auto triggered by exceeding some speed threshold for a time window, so you can't forget about turning it on, which is nice as some of us have to fidget with all of them before a session.

I don't think as highly for their Race Keeper/HDX2 also what's used at a certainracing school, and given that the price point is almost 10x higher, it's really hard to justify for what is pretty much just a data/video logger. Somewhat similar to Road Keeper, but it's a standalone box with two (only) external cameras so you can point wherever, limited CAN/OBD-II integration, but no realtime in-car feedback. At that point, sure, you've probably got an AIM, Apex, or even a MoTeC. But then, the more I look into it, the more I can really appreciate the ASL RaceCapture Pro, which looks to have all of the same bells and whistles, in addition to streaming that data to an in-car tablet, as well as streaming it out to say, a remote coach. Then adding in the additional functionality like tire temp sensors, and the tach/shift light with display buttons, man, that's real hard to beat if you're a data nerd.
 

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