VIR Climbing Esses...Thoughts

[Jet One]

I was having a discussion with a friend at work who frequents VIR. He drives a fairly high HP to weight ratio E36 LS swapped M3 and his video shows him noticeably hesitant through that section of track. He's admittedly apprehensive through the section. Although I haven't seen any S197/S550's getting too upset in those esses (I'm sure they probably can), I've seen video of drivers paying for what looks like some small mistakes to my eye.

How do our cars react in that section? What should we look out for? What are some tips to drive that portion well and without incident? (Looks like Black Boss noticeably adds throttle right after the low area mid way through).

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

@steveespo @Black Boss

 

[steveespo]

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Watch video through esses, not a bad line up here, I could carry a bit more speed with some more balls and new ball joints. Note vibration on backstretch, that was right front swaybar mount broken causing vibe. 3 months later ball joint broke in the esses and car caught fire in the grass.

PS @captdistraction this is the motor you will be using.

 

[Jet One]

Nice video Steveespo. Thanks for posting. I ran across your video when the ball joint broke! That could have been really bad...thankfully it was low impact and no injury.

 

[Boone]

I was informed by Mike Roush's review of my video that I was also giving up time in the uphill esses. This is my next time at VIR, and I was determined to push a little harder there. Please note the speeds in the video below are off by 15% or so since I swapped from a 4.10 to a 3.55 before this video.

On street tires, I enter around 125mph and get to the braking zone for turn 10 at about 105mph. I figure I average about 115mph for the uphill esses when done right. The best tip I can give is get the first right hander done before the track falls away from you. When the car lands, work to the left and line it up for the right at the top of the hill. I felt like I got it right at the 0:55 mark of the attached video. Go to 3:10 of the video to see what happens if you push too hard going in and try to take the esses in too straight a line. You eat both curbs hard and scrub a lot of speed. Then you take turn 10 too slow because you're checking your drawers. Don't hit the big holes at the start and end of the rumble strips. That would be bad.

 

[Jet One]

Thanks for sharing your advice. I see what you mean on lap two Boone!

I don’t know who they are but this video popped up on my YouTube suggested video page yesterday. Z/28 and GT350 mixing it up pretty good running 2:04s/5s

 

[VoodooBoss]

That's a good video. I've never been to VIR but it looked to me the Z/28 had better lines right up to that last turn. Last summer at Sonoma I was running with two Z/28's and they are very fast cars. I had similar results where I would out run them on the straights and were pretty even in the corners and braking.

 

[DocWalt]

Definitely an area I need to improve on at VIR. It takes balls to take the climbing esses right! I felt like I was going fast in my RS then I looked at my data versus the lightning lap and I was pretty far off there while still apexing faster at South Bend...

I'll have to watch the videos and see what you guys are doing differently.

Do you guys see anything obvious that I was doing "wrong" line wise here (I know it's not a Mustang )?

(skip ahead to 1:10 if it doesn't do it automatically)

 

[ajaquilante]

How fast you go up the uphill esses is a mixture of power, suspension and downforce(or lack of). Anything above 400-450whp, and minimal downforce is a going to be a hairy ride at full tilt. Watching videos of FIAGT3 cars, they make it look easy with all the downforce. Something super stiff is going to bounce and be harsh. The IMSA GS car in 2014, we were cresting the hump at about 140ish, having to breath off as you never knew how many wheels were touching the ground afterwards, I've got pictures of at least two in the air(yes I know standard fare for myself, but usually not at that speed) . Boss 302S/PWC wing and splitter makes the ride a little more comfortable, but its still not a walk in the park.

Part of it is due to the curbing over the hump. When they repaved they widened the curb but left the original. That original bit is pretty steep and watching Boone's video, the 2nd lap it looks like that pushes him drivers left. If you don't use all the curb you need more input for the next parts. To me its smoother if you go at it 100%, use the all the curb on the right, as it makes the inputs less for the next left/right. There is a bit of a dip at the end of it, so you best be going fast to carry it, or be very accurate in your line. You want to make going over the hump with as little lateral load as possible. A quote from a book on the history of VIR says they kept shaving down the hill till they could go over the rise at 100mph in some Mercedes at the time without getting air.

I'll look for some video of it.

 

[Boone]

DocWalt, the only problem I see with your run through the uphill esses is with your right foot. If the car is as stable as it appears on the video, and you are on the line you took in the video, you'll come out on the top side. I know it's real easy for me to say this, and not so easy to do. Point is... you have the line. A big key is to wait for the entry on the first left hand turn. You can see in my video, all the problems up the hill start at the first turn on the bottom of the hill.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Increase testicular fortitude.

Again, "saying" and "doing" are two different things

 

[ajaquilante]

This was from practice at the VIR 13 hour in 2016.

I was taking turn 10 a bit soft as it wasn't worth the risk with that dip on the exit that was sending every GT car off the road during the IMSA race that year. This was in one of our PWC Mustangs.

 

[DocWalt]

Thanks for the tips and the videos, gents! Seems like I was on pretty much the right line, though I can probably/definitely hop the first curb on the hump and be on the yellow/green part and it's smoother than hitting just the unpainted bit.

Then I just need to grow a pair and commit Oddly, I struggled with that in the esses but my apex speed at T10 was really pretty darned high based on most videos I've seen consider I was on street tires...

 

[DocB]

Seems no one has mentioned steady state throttle vs modulation coming up through the esses.
Read: weight transfer, bite, and rotation.

 

[DocWalt]

The tips from everyone here and my instructor drilling it into my head helped a lot today. Now I need to increase the testicular fortitude on the big brake zones tomorrow

 

[Jet One]

Looks like a lot of fun! Nice driving and thanks for sharing. I’m 3 1/2 hour drive from VIR...I need to make my first track day happen.

 

[Wotfun]

The tips from everyone here and my instructor drilling it into my head helped a lot today. Now I need to increase the testicular fortitude on the big brake zones tomorrow

@DocWalt, very cool! Thanks for sharing. I was at VIR this past December and March 2nd 2018 for charity laps. But next weekend will be my first HPDE with my mustang. Central VA is getting snow tonight. I’m really hoping the weather will be nice at VIR. Be safe and have fun!

 

[Jet One]

@DocWalt, Hope you had a safe and great day 2! What did your instructor emphasize?

 

[Next Phase]

Thanks for sharing your advice. I see what you mean on lap two Boone!

I don’t know who they are but this video popped up on my YouTube suggested video page yesterday. Z/28 and GT350 mixing it up pretty good running 2:04s/5s

That's Don in the GT350 and the other car was driven by someone's first time @ VIR. (Obviously an experienced driver).

The GT350 is on HRE's on street tires while the Z28 was on Sport Cup 2 tires.

Awesome video and great driving (until the Z went off track).

*edit, the GT350 was on Cup 2 tires... Ran a 2.03 that day.

 

[DocWalt]

2nd day went well! Started with an "interesting" drive to the track with slushy mess, trees down, etc.

My instructor yesterday was helping me work on the timing of throttle modulation in the esses and having the bravery to commit to it. Pretty much exactly what was shown in the videos above.

Here's a video from my final two laps today:

I got down to consistent 2:05s-2:06s on clear laps. I'm really pretty happy with that!

No data, sorry... I had GPS issues today as did another TMO member. Weird stuff...