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Voodoo 5.2 block for a DIY A52XS

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pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
Well, as luck would have it, I'm in the market for a short block. Here's the story:

I was at Summit Point this past weekend for a fun birthday weekend and my first event of the season. My second session, I noticed my oil temp spiking. I got off track to let it cool and started planning my air-to-oil cooler (I only run the boss cooler now). I pulled the dipstick and while there was plenty of oil, the stick was scorchingly hot. I knew then, there was a problem. What, I just couldn't say. I didn't want to say anything and quitely packed up and blamed it on the rain. Got it out and apart this week and found #3 rod bearing welded to the crank, as well as 2, 3 and 4 main bearings with partial "re-clocking". I can't find any reason for it? Whole top end is well lubed and looking perfect. I disected the oil pump and its all good. Maybe theirs blockage in the oil galleys? Anyhow, the crank is toast and the block is iffy. It took some heat. Cast aluminum that has been locally over heated scares me. The rods all look perfect (even #3), but I will have to measure them to make sure. So, I need a block, crank and bearings at a minimum.

This got me searching the web. Getting replacement parts is no problem and way less expensive than buying a built short block...as well as being available now instead of waiting 4-6 weeks for it to be built. Then, as we do, I evaluate upgrade options. If something needs to be torn out, its natural for power junkies to look at upgrading. Well, with all the Voodoo buzz and constantly having the DG Racing boss with its built 5.2 in my shop, I think about the possibility of having a 5.2 for myself. Well, the M-6007-A52XS doesn't appear to be available for purchase yet, but its going to be expensive. I talked to MMR and they can get me a re-sleeved 5.2 short block for $7000 and I can wait 6 weeks for it. But then, I see this: M-6010-M52, which is the part number for the Voodoo 5.2 block! From all I've heard, it has the coyote architecture, which should allow the coyote crank, heads, timing components and everything else to be bolted up. With a fully functional top end, I could potentially be in the 5.2L game on the cheap.

I am going to start evaluating this...hopefully in a hurry. I want to have my car back togehter for Superfest in 1 month.

I have already confirmed Manley has a 3.700 forged piston with all the rest of the dimensions the same as the standard 1.630 piston. I am awaiting price and availability right now. Then piston rings. I need to evaluate the Manley ring package for their piston verses something more exotic, like the Total Seal gapless top ring package. With all the rest of the dimensions being the same, the standard issue Manley H-beam forged rod will be spec'd. I will have to find out which of the Ford cranks are the cheapest. The choices are the F150, the GT or the Boss. All are the same forged piece, but with different balancing. Since it will have to be re-balanced, it doesn't matter which. For the balancing, I will have to enlist an engine builder to balance the rotating assembly.

The goal is to get a forged 5.2 short block that costs no more than buying an MMR forged 5.0 short block for $5000 (including shipping). If I can't achieve that, then I will abort and just get the components to repair my engine. Wish me luck!
 
I have been waiting for someone to build an engine using this block. I hope it works our for you and stays within your budget!
 
Now you mentioning those oil temp spikes makes sense. I really should invest in gauges soon... because of this were to happen to me, I'd be oblivious and blow a hole in the block.

It really sucks hearing about your engine though, especially when it was recently rebuilt. Really hope you get it up and running before Superfest. Worst case, you swap Darren's engine in your car for the weekend, he won't notice before its too late ;D :p
 
Sorry about your mishap. I am not a modular block guy so I can't understand why you can't find the root cause of this failure. I have read about this happening before (usually a rod through the side of the block) and of course it was always replaced under warranty with no explanation of the root cause (Fords secret?). I am going to throw out some wild guesses:
1. You lost oil control in the oil pan and the oil pickup sucked air which caused the oil pump to lose it's prime and toasted the bearings as they are first in line to lose oil?
2. The block cracked somewhere in the main oil passages and it lost just enough oil pressure that the rods went dry first?
3. The oil pump gear or housing is cracked? or like you mentioned some type of main oil gallery blockage you can't see?
4. The oil pressure sending unit is not working and is stuck at/on a normal pressure fooling the computer?

It would be interesting to hear back from you if you find the root cause and I would be afraid to use that block unless you find the exact cause. Good luck with the new engine!

Tim
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
441
Southeast
F.D. Sako said:
https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=11007.0

Steve:

First let me say, I am sorry to hear of your engine failure. It is most fortunate that you happened to see the temp gauge climb as it appears as though it was close to total catastrophic failure.

In consideration of the 1 month time restraint you mentioned to make your next Track Day event, I would go this route, (see above quote), and you will be up and running in less than a month with no loss of track time or loss of track deposit $. There are so many variables in going with the 5.2 block as a Non- FPC engine build. Would you be the first? It just seems to me that the potential for BS, (Build Surprise) is great, if you know what I mean.

Also have to agree with the other post above. When you clock a main or rod bearing, the cause is usually oil starvation, the question becomes why? Plus, if there is just a trace of water in the oil as it hits the journal, then Flash! it's steam cleaned.

It's probably just me, but I would be curious as to the cause of the oil starvation. Keep us posted on your decision, and if you do decide to go for the 5.2 Non-FPC NA engine build, I'll be right there glued to the screen reading your post about this build!

Good luck,
302 Hi Pro
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
i have the moroso road race oil pan and it was filled with oil to the middle of the hash marks (checked after failure). the gauge is an innovative dual gauge with a pan mounted temp sender and filter adapter mounted pressure sender. Pressure always flutctuates, so its not stuck. on track, pressure was up the whole time (between 50-70psi), but did go to about 10 when i was in the paddock checking things out. once the oil cooled off it was back to around 35-45psi ad idle, so i assume the reading was related to heat, but who really knows? I inspected the oil pump and housing closely for cracks, but nothing. there isn't any visual ques that it passed a chunk of something through and into the galley either.

this may just end up being one of life's great mysteries.

so, i am eager to get pricing back on my 5.2 hopeful, but it seems everyone took the day off. guess i will have to wait until next week.

From the standpoint of time, the complete boss engine in MI is a great plan, but i'm light about 5k to purchase it (with shipping). its just a non-starter. I can secure a replacement block, crank and bearings in a week. I just want to explore the opportunity to maybe make lemonade, ya know?
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
still waiting on piston pricing and availability, but i'm sub-$3k for everything else. this is totally doable! the issue is timing.

that's where it gets tricky. i just confirmed with manley that the pistons and rods are in-stock in NJ. boom! i still need to get pricing, but thats a smaller issue right now. next, the crank. i found the cheapest is to go with the boss production crank...under $200 and is a stock item at ford. the bearings are all standard issue and are always in stock with ford. my head studs are 11mm, but the 5.2 block is 12mm, so those have to be replaced. the head change kit from ford is only $90, which comes with headgaskets, so i will just go that route. the block is the wildcard. it goes by 2 part numbers. the ford racing and the production part number. as usual, they are exactly the same, but pricing is wildly different. $2205 for the FRPP and $1798 for the production. Here's the kicker...indefinite backorder for the production block and in stock for the FRPP unit. Looks like i will need to pay the extra $400 if i want a shot of getting this done.

i am still researching to find the "gotcha" but I honestly can't find one.

in comparison to the A52XS, i will have bowl blended boss heads instead of the gt350 heads and 11:1 compression instead of 12:1, an unknown difference in cams verses my cj cams and of course the boss intake instead of the cj intake. but those are relatively small differences. i currently have 450rwhp (well, had really) and if i could have gotten the gt350 throttle body project done before the engine crapped, i would certainly have had at least the 465 rwhp i had with the accufab 84.5mm TB. add to that the extra cubes and i would expect another 30hp? i could be close to 500rwhp without sacrificing my low end torque, like the comp cams guys do.
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
441
Southeast
So where is the drop in compression ratio coming from? The cylinder head combustion chamber shape/size? Or the piston top shape? Do the 5.0L and 5.2L short blocks have the same deck height?

Did I get this right? Your going with the 5.0L Boss Crank, Manley 5.0L custom piston and rods, and Boss 302 cylinder heads?

Then the 5.0L cams and timing chains will bolt up to the new 5.2L.

I guess it just depends on deck height being the same?

Did I get that right?
Thanks, I'm felling a bit slow today.
302 Hi Pro
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
The Pistons Manley lists only go to 11:1, not that I wanted 12:1 anyhow. The blocks external dimensions are exactly the same. All the timing component ts should bolt up. So, the rotating assembly is a big bore coyote cross plane crank setup. The gt350 block just offers a low cost version of any of the aftermarket resleeved big bore blocks.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
Well, it looks like a go! I am waiting for confirmation that all the items from Ford are readily available. I have already confirmed Manley has all their parts in stock.

After reading about the 5.2L block, I am interested to see just how much lighter it is than the standard 5.0L block. Hopefully, its more than the weight added from larger slugs and H-beam rods?

I will be replacing the oil pump in its entirety to make sure if there was a problem with the pump, that it can't hurt the new one. I will also be changing the cam covers and dipstick. Ford updated these pieces. The covers require half the bolts and the dipstick is presented more forward with a dogleg extension tube, so it should make working around the strut tower brace much easier. Other than that, it will remain piston oil squirter free, as my current boss motor was. I had a choice, but there's nothing definitive to say one way or the other, but it appears that squirter engines have a tendancy to consume more oil. Other than that, there's nothing but speculation on whether it prevents detonation or increases windage. So, I will stay the course.

All the parts are officially ordered. I expect to receive everything by early next week. Then, I can get started on blueprinting and ordering the main bearings. When I have that, I can send the rotating assembly out for balancing.

Superfest will be close.
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,730
2,734
Arizona, USA
I'm not sure if I'm up to date on all the innovations on the 5.2, but I doubt the static weight difference vs. the 5.0 would be much, if any. Or are you talking rotating mass?

You might consider doing the MMR billet timing sprocket since you are going to be building from the ground up. It's the one item they make that I was interested in having in my build when I did my 5.0 @ end of 2014. "Cheap" insurance if you are gonna rev the piss out of this thing :)
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
the 5.2L block is lighter because it doesn't have 8 iron sleeves. Ford hasn't said just how much weight was saved, so its up to me to let the world know;) the rotating assembly will be heavier by some amount, as the pistons are larger and the rods are more substantial. another thing i will make sure to document. i actually already have the mmr timing chain sprocket, so i should be all good there.
 

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