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Vorshlag Bilsteins

I may have asked this before but I'll ask again just in case.

Over on Corner Ponies Facebook site they aren't real kind about Koni shocks. How do Bilsteins compare to Koni Yellows in terms of performance for a novice HPDE person???? If anyone has any experience with Vorshlag Bilsteins that would be a plus.....
 
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Bay Area
IMO its a Ford VS Chevy thing. At your level and point it really comes down to what you like and prefer. For example, I have full suspension in my Boss and people love my set up. I don't like some of the characteristics of it but it works well. I just have a different driving style than my suspension. I hope that helps.
 
From my understanding, people don't like koni's, because their valving seems to be inconsistent. I think a vendor did some testing (maybe vorshlag?) to show the inconsistency. However, some of the vendors custom valve their konis based on their spring rates and packages.

I wouldn't think twice about running a koni coilover from cortex or ground control... even if their valving is off a little, I probably wouldn't even notice it. I wonder how worn my stock shocks are now after 3-4 years of tracking :eek:
 
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My $.02. I have tested the Koni's at Button Willow and at Laguna. The did work very well with the Maximum Motorsport springs. This is on a 11 GT. My Friend with a 07 also ran Konis with the same springs. At both track we could turn in and change lines at will. Very easy car to drive fast. Stable at higher speeds. The Koni's even on the fullest setting still felt soft to me though. On my car, the adjusters started moving out of the top of the strut. Bottoming out was knocking them up. Tap them back in and up they would come.

While I went coil overs. He and his 07 swapped to the Bilstines. I have driven his car with both setups. MM springs, Strano front sway bar and 18 MM rear sway bar. I can tell you that the Bill's are better in every way. He got them from Vorshlag with camber plates. With his car you just get in and drive, on the street the do okay can be just a little stiff to some.. To me it feels like a racecar...But his setup has not been ran at the track yet. But I'm sure it will be fine when we hit Sonoma in July.
 
The issues with the low-end Konis are:

People use them with a spring that is too soft and lowers the car too much. Then they bottom out and end up damaged.
You can't effectively use them off-the-shelf with a much stiffer spring, as they aren't valved for that.
They don't have a great top guide, so they wear relatively quickly (though not as quick as some others) and because of the twin-tube design and low nitrogen pressure it's hard to tell they are worn out by examining the exterior. Any application that has significant side loading (like the S197 rear) just takes them out quicker.
Because of the adapter design, what is 1/4 turn from full soft on one shock won't match the same adjustment on another shock.
They should never be run with the adjuster at full stiff.

And so what do we see people do? They match their Konis with inexpensive lowering springs and bottom out the car everywhere, or mate them with an add-on coilover kit with rates well beyond that the shocks can handle and turn the knobs to "11". Using poly rear shock mounts just hastens their demise.

If you use them with stock height springs, with stock rubber rear mounts, and work with the adjusters to get them to match from side to side, then they are in their sweet spot and can do what they are designed for. But outside of that, they just seem to quit.

If you -really- want Konis, we can sell them. But I'd try extra hard to talk you into something else that has better performance, more longevity and some more flexibility in it's use.
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
modernbeat said:
They should never be run with the adjuster at full stiff.

No one EVER believes this... EVER. No full soft, no full stiff. Lee Grimes showed me several at SCCA Nationals that were broken from EXACTLY this.... mine were a cheap easy fix :)
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
437
Southeast
Is this thread more of a Koni dump, rather than a Bilstein conversation? I think both manufacturers have their plus and minus points.

I run Koni yellow adjustable struts and shocks on my Boss 302 with Ford Performance Boss T spring and have had good performance. I don't run the full on or full off, but one thing I can say about the Koni adjustables is that I can certainly feel the difference when I make adjustments.

Compared to my OEM Boss dampeners, the adjustments on the Koni's are much better. I couldn't feel much if anything when making adjustments on the OEM units. Also, doesn't Koni offer a life time warranty to cover broken units?

While Koni's may not be suited to everyone's taste or application, they work well for me. And for that matter, I'm sure Bilsteins are not suited for everyone's taste or application either.

So with that said, what makes the Bilsteins a good choice for the S197 chassis Mustangs when using the same springs as described above?

302 Hi Pro
 
I run Koni Yellows all around with 5300T springs. Made the swap last year and the difference is amazing. Car really sticks to the ground. I run them about 1/2 tightened at the track. Yes they are a little stiff around town but well worth it for the track in my view.
 
302 Hi Pro said:
Is this thread more of a Koni dump, rather than a Bilstein conversation? I think both manufacturers have their plus and minus points.

No, I didn't intend on it being a Koni dump. To be honest I was, and probably still will, buy Koni. I've used Bilstein shocks on a number of "F" and "G" body GM cars and I loved them.

I am just trying to research my options.

Thanks for all the input......
 
302 Hi Pro said:
Is this thread more of a Koni dump, rather than a Bilstein conversation? I think both manufacturers have their plus and minus points.

So the skinny on the Bilsteins, first, they have the absolutely hardest and deepest surface treatment of any damper I've ever worked with. I often have to machine shafts, and the Bilsteins are the hardest. By far. This shaft treatment, coupled with their inverted design for the struts, allows to last far longer than any other damper I've worked with. They withstand side loads better, again, resulting in longer life. But that also means you can use inexpensive, isolating, rubber mounts for the shocks rather than having to use spherical mounts to remove the side load.

For the S197, they are available in a few different lengths that accommodate stock and lowered ride heights.

For most S197 applications they are valved to use a stiffer spring than the Konis are at full stiff.

Because they use a larger piston (monotube design) they don't suffer from the stiff-ride issues that plague twin-tube shocks (with small pistons) when they are valved for performance.

Outside the OEM replacement lines, there is a huge array of parts we use in the Motorsports lines that can be adapted to the OEM replacement pieces if required.

They don't have knobs. Which could be good or bad depending on your use.
 
302 Hi Pro said:
So with that said, what makes the Bilsteins a good choice for the S197 chassis Mustangs when using the same springs as described above?

They are shortened and inverted mono tube dampers, meaning you retain full bump travel after lowering your vehicle. Plus they will last much longer than their Koni counterpart. I've never ran Koni's on my own car, but rode in a car with Yellow's and softer springs and the ride was bouncier and handled worse than my car with Bilstein's and higher rate springs.
 

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