Yet, you put a GMC blower on your Dodge engine in your Ford body. Same sort of best of everything we are doing.
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Vorshlag off my Xmas List
- Thread starterk98dave
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Yet, you put a GMC blower on your Dodge engine in your Ford body. Same sort of best of everything we are doing.
The other half of our shop is an engine shop. We see abused engines all the time. And yes, there are a lot of poorly put together LS engines including some of the factory supplied engines. But when done right, with attention paid to what actually makes power, they can be reliable and powerful in a small package.
We don't see as many Coyote engines, as most customers don't want to rebuild them and instead elect to just replace them with a new engine. Since they can't easily bump up the performance during the rebuild process, and knowing they will just end up with what they had before, they take the easy path.
FWIW, the Coyote engines in our in-house builds, and our customer supported cars have mostly been very reliable. We had one of our heavily supported customers damage a GEN-I Coyote so that it was consuming a lot of oil. But we put 17k track miles on our 2011 without issue. And with the new GEN-II and GEN-III engines making a reliable 450 or 480-ish HP, if that suits you, then it's great!
But, we want more power (a -LOT- more power). And we want it reliable. And we want it naturally aspirated. And we want it in a S550 chassis. And we know how to get all of that with an LS engine. So, that's the path we took.
We took a look at the new iron Coyote block at PRI. Without liners it's reported to be able to be pushed out to a 5.6L displacement. And with some careful work on the stroke, I'd bet we can get that closer to 6.0L. But that block that was on display was far from builder ready. It still needed an enormous amount of machining. Only the barest machine work had been completed, pan rails, head mating surfaces, head bolts, and water pump mating surface. It still required pan bolt holes, oil galleys, main cap bolt holes and more. The block is a step in the right direction, but it needs to be easier and bigger.
And just so nobody thinks we have LS on the brain, we do a lot of other engines. New Hemis, Vipers, big displacement Ford small blocks, older Chevy small blocks and big blocks, and some oddball vintage stuff.
Here's my 1927 Ford Model T engine getting ready for a bore and stroke job.
Here's my 1927 Ford Model T engine getting ready for a bore and stroke job.
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the thing I remember about LS engine sis that IMSA (then Grand Am) had to carve out a rule that allowed them to run a dry sump because their oil scavenging was so bad that they couldn't last a race
2 more choices
4 cam LS
big Ford that you can boost to eternity
2 more choices
4 cam LS
big Ford that you can boost to eternity
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need to find a Gallivan head for that T
Nope. This engine is a lugger, not a revver. It's going into a camping truck that is being built for an all dirt road and Jeep trail trip from Trinidad, Colorado to Agoura, California. I've got the highest of the high compression aluminum heads for it, the Prus "P" head. And I'm having Wiseco scan the chamber to make some ultra high compression pistons for it. Should get it up to almost 7:1 compression! I've got a downdraft Holley 1904 carb off a '62 Falcon for it. Should have good torque, but not expecting a lot more power up top.
modernbeat, Keep up the good work..in nice warm TX................
How about a Coyote powered Cayman? I'm sure this one has already been discussed here:
With a 302 you can never lose, especially now a days......Giddy Up!!!!
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@modernbeat It's cool what you are building.. My Falcon was going to be a FE 427 with 8 stack Hilborn setup. I was restoring my front engine dragster I had but sold it. Kept my 331 and used it. You know us die hard Ford guys hate seeing Chevys in fords.. Have to rib you a little.
Is it a 427 or 390?
- Thread starter
- #33
I stand by my original post but I do appreciate the work of any engine swap.
Oh BTW LS parts are easy to get, my experience is you can find plenty scattered around the grass at tracks everywhere
Oh BTW LS parts are easy to get, my experience is you can find plenty scattered around the grass at tracks everywhere
Yes we get a lot of hate for our LS swaps in any non-GM chassis, going back to 2001. I'm used to it.
Since the next Star Wars movie comes out tomorrow I'm using some SW based "hate" memes... #ThisIsTheWay
There are a lot of reasons why have swapped LS engines into eleven different chassis over the last 17 years. The image above says a lot. On the left is a DOHC Coyote V8, sitting in an S197 Mustang. On the right is an LS V8 in an S550 Mustang, which has roughly the same engine bay size. Due to it's size the LS V8 is just easier to swap into more cars than any Overhead Cam V8, costs less to make the same power as virtually any other modern engine, and has the potential for 8.0L of displacement inside the confines of the OEM block. What's not to love?
Erik from HPR and I shot this pic in 1999 showing the Ford DOHC 4.6L next to a 302 pushrod Windsor, and it was equally as triggering back then - when I was encouraging pushrod Windsor swaps vs the behemoth DOHC engines. We were swapping in 408" stroker Windsors that made more power NA than any Mod motor could ever dream of. These days we do 454" Windsors, and it can go further... but they are all iron blocks. The aftermarket aluminum SBF blocks are pricey, which is why the LS V8 is so popular. It is similar in size and displacement potential but you don't have to spend $4000 on an aluminum block, and the cylinder heads are a lot better.
A modern Gen III/IV/V GM LS/LT V8 shares more with the Windsor than the Small Block Chevy of the last century. Some folks call the LS engines the "Gen 2 Windsor", and you can literally put an LS head on a Ford Windsor block. The Ford even has better oil drain back than the LS - something GM got wrong until the latest Gen VI LT2 engines (C8 Corvette). The LS just has so much more aftermarket support - nothing even comes close, not even remotely.
The LS in the BMW above fit with tons of room to spare, and the 468" / 7.7L built by my other shop Horsepower Research made 640 whp. On pump gas. Without boost or any tricks, and its made for road racing so it can do this all day. Show me a 640 whp Coyote that DOESN'T have to rely on boost, not to mention that could fit in many other cars with "normal" engine bays. We build 100s of engines a year and most of those are LS based... because we can make 600, 700, 800, 900 whp in these without boost. We just cannot do that with a Coyote V8. If we could, we would be building them.
Not everyone is going to get the Mustang LS swap thing, and I fully understand (but we have two other Mustang generation LS swaps in process). To put a Chevy engine in a Ford? 25 years ago I would have been saying the same things as most of you. But it's just so damn easy to make power with these engines now. Oh and our #LS550 swap is nearly complete. Both engine mounts, trans crossmember, and long tube headers are in the test car and nearly production ready. We will spec and order a driveshaft next week, then work on production fixtures and make a batch of mounts - and then see if anyone wants this swap kit. If not it will be a "one of one" swap - but I highly doubt it...
Cheers!
Since the next Star Wars movie comes out tomorrow I'm using some SW based "hate" memes...
#ThisIsTheWay
There are a lot of reasons why have swapped LS engines into eleven different chassis over the last 17 years. The image above says a lot. On the left is a DOHC Coyote V8, sitting in an S197 Mustang. On the right is an LS V8 in an S550 Mustang, which has roughly the same engine bay size. Due to it's size the LS V8 is just easier to swap into more cars than any Overhead Cam V8, costs less to make the same power as virtually any other modern engine, and has the potential for 8.0L of displacement inside the confines of the OEM block. What's not to love?
Erik from HPR and I shot this pic in 1999 showing the Ford DOHC 4.6L next to a 302 pushrod Windsor, and it was equally as triggering back then - when I was encouraging pushrod Windsor swaps vs the behemoth DOHC engines. We were swapping in 408" stroker Windsors that made more power NA than any Mod motor could ever dream of. These days we do 454" Windsors, and it can go further... but they are all iron blocks. The aftermarket aluminum SBF blocks are pricey, which is why the LS V8 is so popular. It is similar in size and displacement potential but you don't have to spend $4000 on an aluminum block, and the cylinder heads are a lot better.
A modern Gen III/IV/V GM LS/LT V8 shares more with the Windsor than the Small Block Chevy of the last century. Some folks call the LS engines the "Gen 2 Windsor", and you can literally put an LS head on a Ford Windsor block. The Ford even has better oil drain back than the LS - something GM got wrong until the latest Gen VI LT2 engines (C8 Corvette). The LS just has so much more aftermarket support - nothing even comes close, not even remotely.
The LS in the BMW above fit with tons of room to spare, and the 468" / 7.7L built by my other shop Horsepower Research made 640 whp. On pump gas. Without boost or any tricks, and its made for road racing so it can do this all day. Show me a 640 whp Coyote that DOESN'T have to rely on boost, not to mention that could fit in many other cars with "normal" engine bays. We build 100s of engines a year and most of those are LS based... because we can make 600, 700, 800, 900 whp in these without boost. We just cannot do that with a Coyote V8. If we could, we would be building them.
Not everyone is going to get the Mustang LS swap thing, and I fully understand (but we have two other Mustang generation LS swaps in process). To put a Chevy engine in a Ford? 25 years ago I would have been saying the same things as most of you. But it's just so damn easy to make power with these engines now. Oh and our #LS550 swap is nearly complete. Both engine mounts, trans crossmember, and long tube headers are in the test car and nearly production ready. We will spec and order a driveshaft next week, then work on production fixtures and make a batch of mounts - and then see if anyone wants this swap kit. If not it will be a "one of one" swap - but I highly doubt it...
Cheers!
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TMSBOSS
Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
Your points are valid.
Back In the day most hot rods had small block Chevy engines. A Ford in a Ford was not that common. The 350 and 350 combo were run in everything from a 23Tbucket to a chopped Merc. Why? HP per dollar.
Personally I like my Chevy in my Chevy and my ford engines in my Ford’s. It’s just preference. Nothing more.
Back In the day most hot rods had small block Chevy engines. A Ford in a Ford was not that common. The 350 and 350 combo were run in everything from a 23Tbucket to a chopped Merc. Why? HP per dollar.
Personally I like my Chevy in my Chevy and my ford engines in my Ford’s. It’s just preference. Nothing more.
It's nice to have stuff where they're meant to be...............
It's so cliche in 2019 to hate LS's in Fords.......
Like powerful, reliable engines in competition cars.It's nice to have stuff where they're meant to be...............
Mad Hatter
Gotta go Faster
Coyotes in Porsches.... its fun too be a Heritic,,, though the LS does fit better
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