Wake up Ford...

Discussion in 'TMO General Discussion Forum' started by Grant 302, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $328,347 Moderator

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    Absolutely agree with @Fat Boss on this...sadly, on many levels. They lost my dad as a continuous Ford/Lincoln owner since '78.

    Probably not going to lose me as an owner, but haven't held any (F) shares since early '15 even after decades of ownership. I've had little interest since in buying any back since.

    They did get my Chevy-loving older brother on board with a Focus EV...his first Ford ever. Lease terms were right for him and he needed an HOV permit for his L.A. commute. He retires soon, so he won't be needing it after that.

    Any suggestions on what Ford should change to retain long-term customers? I'm sure many have gripes, but constructive criticism would be interesting.
     
  2. 93cobra

    93cobra TMO Advanced

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    As somebody that works at a dealership, personally there are alot of things that Ford does that I find really dissapointing. The focus/fiesta DPS6 debacle is one issue that is case in point. Basically, its a DCT that seems to need repair every 20k miles. For the most part, Ford covers them....but you can bet that next time that customer is going to go to elsewhere. 2015 F150 iced up/frozen door latches...really? It's 2018! As an enthusiast, It's exciting to me to see this modern era of SVT (Ford Performance) with some really incredible machines. I get discouraged at the dealership level when I see a well done product leave much to be desired by way too many issues at the dealer level. Across the board, ADM's REALLY piss people off and they go elsewhere. Warranty/PDI labor times are a joke. Specifically on Focus RS, that head gasket recall is killer. The whole flat rate system is antiquated and has to go. It's what I find exciting about tesla. Detroit collectively seems to want to have it both ways. They want to be hip, and modern, and forward thinking...yet remain entrenched and bogged down with the ways they have done things for decades. Back to the RS recall, book time if it was customer pay to change a head gasket is 20 hrs. Recall pays less than 10! Not only that I ask anybody, in any line of work, would you work a full day for 1/2 price? I'm not a technician but I can totally understand why good qualified techs are leaving in droves. If I owned an RS, my expectaion would be that the person doing the job would be taking extra care and time with it as it's a specialty vehicle, and treat it like it's their own. Another example. GT350 splitters. Full PDI time (drive car in, check it over, remove plastics, etc AND install the splitter is like 1.1 hrs A NORMAL mustang PDI is .9 hrs. Ford decided it was only going to pay .2 hours to install the splitter! Is it no surprise that in MANY cases, the screws for the splitter ended up in the trash? So again, Ford comes out with an amazing product in the 350/R...and it gets ruined at the dealership level. Add to that the recall for the oil cooler lines. That same splitter has to come off again..as does the under engine cover, R+R the lines, and reinstall for .9 hours. Last but not least, the oil filter needing to be torqued. Most dealerships pay .3 hrs to their techs for an oil change.

    To summerize, I really do think you summed it up with "wake up". obviously, its never going to be perfect, and most dealers still use the flat rate system. I just feel like the interests of the customer, the technician, and FoMoCo are all in opposition to one another. It's not all Ford cororate-the dealership management is to blame as well. I've heard great things about tesla as it pertains to customer service at the dealership level. The main problems there stem from them still being a young company. They don't have the parts distribution or logistics of the other manufacturers.
     
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  3. Fat Boss

    Fat Boss TMO Addict

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    Thanks Grant! I haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking about the peripheral processes at Ford. I think it starts with cars and trucks that people get excited about. The F Series of course is the cash cow and I don't think Ford wants to stray far from that model. One thing they could do to improve loyalty is give repeat customers an increasing discount every time they buy a car or truck.

    As for the service, I can't argue with what was posted. Are the mechanics not negatively incentivized when they F up a job like the splitter? I work with the quality folks a lot in my job, and I am responsible for some very expensive manufactured items, and I can tell you if you don't have the people with wrenches committed to doing their very best you'll end up with quality problems.

    Back to what the customer wants... I want an electric Mustang. Before all the control freaks lose their minds, I also want supercharged and or turbocharged V8's. I want both. I want a bad to the bone AWD Tesla bludgeoner electric Mustang though. Why hasn't Ford come out with one? For me the value is tremendous. I'd be in the carpool lane saving my hour a day playing the game here in CA, "fueling up" at home, and be able to go ricer hunting on the weekends.

    I'd love to have an eco-boost V8 F150 with 800 HP. What doesn't Ford sell those? How many cool Dodge products have been sold in the past five years solely because of the ridiculous HP ratings? Speed sells.
     
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  4. Fat Boss

    Fat Boss TMO Addict

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    My folks got their Model 3 yesterday. What a great driving car. Niiiice torque curve. Not as fast as my 624HP GT350, but faster than anything they've ever had.
     
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  5. DocWalt

    DocWalt TMO Advanced

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    I'm looking at a Pcar because Ford is stuck in the 70s-80s with the ass-backwards mess. On top of that, my steering wheel got scuffed up. I've ordered and returned 4 or 5 replacement steering wheels now because every single one was put together improperly or damaged in shipping... WTF??? Ford's build quality is amazingly crap, the body panel fitment on my GT350 is pretty poor. Bumper/fender rubs on one headlight but the other has tons of space. On my buddy's GT350, the fender scrapes the paint off the door every time you open the passenger door.

    Ford's warranty group is "interesting" at best. I needed the hood repainted on my Focus RS due to factory screw up in the paint (all too common on them) and it took a total of two days to get approved and repaired. Clearly visible streak of bubbles in the windshield on my GT350 took three weeks to get approval for replacement. It would NEVER have passed inspection in PA, it was right in the center of my line of sight, and Ford had zero interest in taking care of it. My dealer and I had to fight and contact all the customer service folks we could think of. That's not even remotely acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  6. TymeSlayer

    TymeSlayer Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...

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    Never met a Ford I didn't like. I've had many Mustangs, an Econloline van, Bronco, Expedition, Edge and F150 Lariat and all had issues at some point but I got 'em fixed and moved on. Ain't a car on this planet that hasn't had some defect, bad design or just plain blow'd up. Since you's asking my half cent, the biggest mistake Ford made was not offering up the black reflective stripes on the 2012 Kona Blue Boss 302.
     
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  7. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $328,347 Moderator

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    So...no suggestions for improvement at this Tyme? ;)
     
  8. TymeSlayer

    TymeSlayer Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...

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    A suggestion for improvement implies a possible solution could be had so unless you have a tyme machine....o_O
     
  9. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $328,347 Moderator

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    o_O Suggestion for improvement as Tyme marches on. Not looking to fix the past or what might have been. Constructive criticism as I mention in the first post. What would you or anyone have Ford do differently now to improve?

    But now that you mention it, another unrelated forum I frequent *insists* that I have a tyme-machine...but not willing to share it. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. k98dave

    k98dave TMO Addict

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    What would you or anyone have Ford do differently now to improve? Well for starters stop using all those cheap made in China parts!
     
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  11. Competition Orange

    Competition Orange TMO Intermediate

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    Until another manufacturer makes a car someone my size car drive and race, Ford could polish a turd and I'd buy one (rwd v8 manual 500+hp turd).

    In a vacuum? Volkswagen build quality and materials (not asking for the moon), Porsche weight (911) , and Ford's 5.0 and 5.2 motors, tremec trans, and the torsen diffs.
     
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  12. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $328,347 Moderator

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    Ironically, the part(s) I have the biggest problem with are from Japan. Not that I blame Ford for that directly.

    And if you're referring obtusely to the MT-82, the biggest problem for the Bosses is the clutch. Not sure where that was made.

    o_O You mean Ford isn't making a 500+ HP V8, RWD & manual?
     
  13. TMSBOSS

    TMSBOSS TMO Addict

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    Turkey.
     
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  14. Competition Orange

    Competition Orange TMO Intermediate

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    They do, and I have one. I don't fit in anything else of this caliber so my choices are slim.
     
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  15. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $328,347 Moderator

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    I misunderstood you! I think this is one of the things Ford does right! A lot of guys came over from 'better' brands to get in Bosses and 350s.
     
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  16. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    Put the Tremec 3160 in all Mustangs!
     
  17. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $328,347 Moderator

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    Perfect suggestion. Also one of the kinds of suggestion(s) I'm looking for!
     
  18. Competition Orange

    Competition Orange TMO Intermediate

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    A 2018 + GT PP2 with a 3160, with all the coolers for say, another $1,500 option on top of the PP2 would have been hard to not buy. Would put a base PP2 at around $47k, a fully 11k lower than the GT350.
     
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  19. blacksheep-1

    blacksheep-1 TMO Addict

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    I'm not sure it's purely a Ford issue..as an example, in the fire service..someplace around the late 80s..mid 90s we decided management all needed college degrees, while I think that is vital, (I went back and got mine at 48 years old) it took the emphasis off of the technical end of the service. At one time, to be a lieutenant, you had to be able to drive the fire engine and the ladder truck, with some background in EMS, now..you simply get a degree and go to the head of the class..This seemed to happen in the late 90s when management decided a degree was the end all to fire management and required everyone to have at least an AS to be a lieutenant, and a masters to become a chief officer. While I applaud that in general terms, it totally cuts out the ability of the chief officers to grasp technical innovations, trends, and problems with service delivery at the base level..which face it, firefighters at the base level are simply high speed plumbers..I have water there, I need it over there..right freaking now. Not a big need for a masters degree there.
    To add to this conundrum is that as a whole we've become a disposable society, when I was a kid in the 60s/70s bikes were expensive, you fixed yours..especially when you bent the forks racing some other kid around the block and you knew your dad would kill you for wrecking your bike. Except for specialized bikes, that is now unheard of because for $40 you can go to Walmart and get a replacement. Now newbs with 4 year degrees are showing up as firefighters who have never touched a wrench, not a clue..we have to give classes on the difference between metric and SAE systems, rightsy tightsy..lefty loosey...when a car chassis is bent and under stress why you don't want to cut the roof off..etc etc. Stuff that guys my age learned from experience at a young age. Currently, the post millennial generations have grown up on tech..living on their phones, and while the information age is everywhere it does not lend itself to actually "making" the change you need to do something. You can have an app that tells what you need to get a specific amount of water to a certain point at a certain pressure and volume, but it doesn't do it for you. Unless young kids actually take the initiative to learn to work with their hands, they can't understand basic issues..even though, on paper they may be qualified to run a fire department.
    When I first became a firefighter in the 70s we were still running as many as 3 working fires in a shift.. what I didn't realize is that I was picking up informational crumbs that made life easier..things like always kick the gate before going through it because they may have a dog, always check the attic, even if you know the fire is out, never go through an opening you can't run out of, and much more....these manifested themselves in the "bigger picture" when we all learned you don't park trucks in front of places like abortion clinic fires because there might be secondary devices...lessons that are no longer learned, until some one gets hurt or injured.
    I would imagine this is the same stuff happening all across industry in the US, I went to a dealership as was amazed at all the "cool stuff" a new car can do , especially with active suspension, but then I found myself asking the question.."Is this really necessary" or are we doing it because we can..not because we actually need to?..because the manufacturer can check another item off against a competitor's option list? and who cares if you can start your car from 100ft away when the damn doors won't open.

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=ee6dc65e59449d623fc56eaf86ae4896&action=view
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  20. TMSBOSS

    TMSBOSS TMO Addict

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    The real issue is the decrease in value of experience and common sense. Until the old guy walks up and fixed something while the educated expert is still googling a solution.
    You can’t buy experience. Got it. I just have a strong dislike for those who under value it.
    Common sense, not so common.
     
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