Well, time to take the engine out again!

[2012-Boss]

Drilling the balancer is fine. Your machinist needed to remove a small amount of weight for the final crankshaft balance.

These will help explain why:

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0803-engine-balancing/

 

[Mad Hatter]

Well,looks like the timing is going out of the window.... and its my fault..... When I bought the bearings form Tasca... Made a big clanger... I bought CU7Z-6D309 And looking at the diagram, I made the mistake of getting A to F..... no seeing that they are different grades.....

Question, How do I know which bearing to get????

 

[Grant 302]

There's a chart to select which bearings based off the journal measurements. I'd call Ford Performance if you can't find it. @captdistraction might have it too, since he's dealt with this recently.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I went with the Clevit bearing setup instead.. Had to pay a fortune in fedex fees.... and I still dont have a tracking number...

Lol... too add to the comedy of errors.... I bought 8 of the CR3Z-6211-A rod bearings.... (8 because its a v8!!)..... But it turns out the bearings part numbers are per half bearing ........ so ordering another 8 ......

 

[Grant 302]

Just because I'm trying to spend more of your money...I like the way that Ford does that bearing selection. With the different part numbers, you can achieve very tight tolerances. I think it's a pretty slick system. JMO, though, and I understand the scheduling issues.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Not sure how Ford does it..but I've assembled engines that used decreasing bearing clearances depending on whether the bearing was near or farther from the pump, the idea was to have minimal pressure at idle, but to allow adequate oil pressure under load. This was for mileage concerns, not really performance..I would think, correct me if I'm missing something, that if the crank is turned to a standard size (.010..020 ..etc) and you get bearings the same size, you can then match the bearings to the crank. I'm a bit baffled by the "half" bearing shell thing.
I used to measure the bearings (don't forget crush) and do it that way. To double check, I would use a product called Plastigauge to recheck when assembled. Plastiguage is not a suitable way to measure bearing tolerances, but is a very suitable way to keep from screwing up when assembling the engine.

Plastigauge tutorial

 

[blacksheep-1]

Drilling the balancer is fine. Your machinist needed to remove a small amount of weight for the final crankshaft balance.

These will help explain why:

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0803-engine-balancing/

I watched a guy do this on a Rolls Royce Merlin engine out of a P51 Mustang, The name of the shop was calle d"General Crankshaft" they could build stroker cranks, anything, they were awesome. They have all passed away now. but I remember their equipment was all 1940s vintage stuff..those guys were craftsmen.

 

[Swine]

You guys just don't know much about real racing. I'm out.

Liked seeing your posts until this one. Lack ability to engage individuals outside of your own single minded purview. Cheers, enjoy your race car.

 

[Grant 302]

I'm a bit baffled by the "half" bearing shell thing.

In a nutshell, there are 3 thickness of half bearing and you can use a combination of the halves to get the clearance you want. By my count, you'd have 9 different permutations (C top and A bottom is not the same as A top and C bottom) by position and 6 different just for clearance, if you consider A-C same as C-A.

 

[JAJ]

In a nutshell, there are 3 thickness of half bearing and you can use a combination of the halves to get the clearance you want. By my count, you'd have 9 different permutations (C top and A bottom is not the same as A top and C bottom) by position and 6 different just for clearance, if you consider A-C same as C-A.

Here's one of the tables (crank journals 1 and 5) for the 2016 5.2 (not the 5.0) just as an example:



The crank has a letter on it and the block has a letter. You go across the top of the table until you hit the block letter, then down until you get to the crank letter. The two numbers at the intersection tell you which bearings to use - the first number is the upper shell and the second number after the slash is the lower shell. There's a second table for bearings 2, 3 and 4.

 

[blacksheep-1]

OK, got it, that's similar to the engine that I worked on on..only twice as many bearings..lol. The next question is..if the block is align honed, and bored, and the crank straightened and cut, wouldn't all that be out of the window?

 

[Grant 302]

Yes, once you're outside of the listed measurement ranges or wherever unless you can interpolate just a bit off the chart.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Gosh, Racer 47, Blacksheep 1 likes us, contributes to many of our amateur racer comments, and thinks alot of us are genuine racers and nice guys. Gotta say this since you said us guys don't know much about real racing and that broad term fits all the TMO faithful, and survey says:

1. Blacksheep 1 is one of us!
2. He and his family are beyond just being real racers!
3. Gotta believe he likely knows more about real racing than you ,since he knows a ton more about that than many of us.
4. So, logic says you are so very wrong, since he is one of us and he is a real racer.
5. We are all students of life and most or us learn from many others and sad you are leaving as I genuinely believe there will be things in the future you will have the chance to learn?

 

[Mad Hatter]

Thanks guys! I am curious what the tolerences would be with the Clevite CLE-MS2292H bearing pack... (STD)

OK, got it, that's similar to the engine that I worked on on..only twice as many bearings..lol. The next question is..if the block is align honed, and bored, and the crank straightened and cut, wouldn't all that be out of the window?

I like that!! Hoping thats the case!


about the Clevite bearings....
"H Series -

• Best to start with when unsure which bearing to choose

• Medium level of eccentricity and high crush

• Enlarged chamfers for greater crankshaft fillet clearance

• Made without flash plating for better seating

• Use with crankshafts that have oversized fillets

• Use with engines that run mid-high RPM range

• Contact patterns should ideally cover 2/3 to 3/4 of the bearing surface"

These Tri-Metal 77 engine bearings combine the strength of a copper-lead alloy layer with steel backing and an electroplated babbitt metal. The steel backing provides strength and durability; the babbitt overlay provides the critical surface characteristics of slipperiness and conformability. This ideal design has properties not even found in many original equipment bearings. Clevite offers main bearings, rod bearings and cam bearings in this series.

Taken from the Jegs website...

 

[Mad Hatter]

Not sure how Ford does it..but I've assembled engines that used decreasing bearing clearances depending on whether the bearing was near or farther from the pump, the idea was to have minimal pressure at idle, but to allow adequate oil pressure under load. This was for mileage concerns, not really performance..I would think, correct me if I'm missing something, that if the crank is turned to a standard size (.010..020 ..etc) and you get bearings the same size, you can then match the bearings to the crank. I'm a bit baffled by the "half" bearing shell thing.
I used to measure the bearings (don't forget crush) and do it that way. To double check, I would use a product called Plastigauge to recheck when assembled. Plastiguage is not a suitable way to measure bearing tolerances, but is a very suitable way to keep from screwing up when assembling the engine.

Plastigauge tutorial

Thanks, they will be using Plasitgauge.

 

[Grant 302]

Just hopefully you don't need the 0.001 oversize ones. I doubt you would since you're reusing parts. Shouldn't be any parts that are too tight. But you never know until you start taking measurements.

Those are:
MS2292HX

 

[Mad Hatter]

Fingers crossed!.... First race of the year is at the end of March and my shop wanted to finish the motor before they go on holidays.... not much chance of that now.... But still have enough time to get it done right.

 

[bauern]

FWIW, the main bearing bore on my engine was 2.8503" and crank journal was 2.6573". Using King Engine Bearings MB5734XPC (std. size), my clearance is .0015". While these are coated bearings, the coating supposedly does not affect clearances.

 

[Grant 302]

That put you right in the middle of the spec tolerance. With the Ford bearings, that could have been tightened up to 0.0010" or so.

 

[bauern]

That put you right in the middle of the spec tolerance. With the Ford bearings, that could have been tightened up to 0.0010" or so.

I wanted coated bearings and min. is .0011" so I'm still to the tight side of the ledger.