What I've learned

[further]

Regarding track performance, and coming from someone who knows nothing about cars, here is what I've learned


Despite the live rear axel, the Boss can kick ass on the track, normally aspirated, without a Watts link.

The stock Boss suspension is surprisingly balanced and good, but needs quite a bit of work.

Endeavor to replace all soft rubber with (at least) hard poly.

Run square. Run as stiff a spring as you can tolerate, and run the fronts harder than the rears.

Run as soft a rear sway as you can. Remove it entirely if you have the balls to do so (I don't).

The shifter/clutch need to be replaced.

This car will provide more joy than anything, unless you want to spend 100k+ on a nice Viper or GT3

I hope this isn't completely off and is somewhat helpful.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Re: Wha I've learned

Sounds like the right direction to me

 

[13Boss#3328]

Re: Wha I've learned

I like this thread.

As many of you might know I am a big believer in keeping your Boss's suspension stock, because I think the Boss can outperform the driving skills of many.

Bomarito lapped Laguna Seca in 1:39.50! That is darn fast!

I guess my point is like beating a dead horse, improve the driver and only then try to improve the suspension.

I think that the roll, pitch, dive and the skittish rear end do NOT necessarily mean the car is not handling well.

It can feel unnerving indeed, however once you control your fears and focus on looking ahead and being smooth, you start being faster and ignore the body motion. It is a weight management deal and about how you keep all four rubbers passionately kissing the tarmac all the time.

Having said all of that, I would have to admit I geniunely do not understand what outdriving (or over-driving) the suspension means.

I need people like Andrew, Gary and the other experienced drivers to technically explain to me how the stock suspension comes short when you become a better and faster driver?? I guess at which point should I feel that I need better suspension setup?

@ArizonaBOSS
@blacksheep-1
@cloud9
@CorteX Racing

Further, good thread! And I do not mean to hijack it.

 

[further]

Re: Wha I've learned

I like this thread.

As many of you might know I am a big believer in keeping your Boss's suspension stock, because I think the Boss can outperform the driving skills of many.

Bomarito lapped Laguna Seca in 1:39.50! That is darn fast!

I guess my point is like beating a dead horse, improve the driver and only then try to improve the suspension.

I think that the roll, pitch, dive and the skittish rear end do NOT necessarily mean the car is not handling well.

It can feel unnerving indeed, however once you control your fears and focus on looking ahead and being smooth, you start being faster and ignore the body motion. It is a weight management deal and about how you keep all four rubbers passionately kissing the tarmac all the time.

Having said all of that, I would have to admit I geniunely do not understand what outdriving (or over-driving) the suspension means.

I need people like Andrew, Gary and the other experienced drivers to technically explain to me how the stock suspension comes short when you become a better and faster driver?? I guess at which point should I feel that I need better suspension setup?

@ArizonaBOSS
@blacksheep-1
@cloud9
@CorteX Racing

Further, good thread! And I do not mean to hijack it.

Thanks for opening a discussion on this.

I can come up with a few responses.

I'm not Bomarito. I'm sure he has ridiculous skills.
With the car pitching around at 100+ I just didn't feel safe.
Braking on the back stretch of VIR, dropping from 140 to 60, my front literally would bottm out.
IDK, my times are just a bit faster with the new suspension, but it's taken time to get it relatively sound. Isn't that part of the fun?

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

The driver absolutely has a lot to do with it.

To your point, Bomarito was able to do faster lap times in a stock Boss at Laguna Seca than what I've been able to do in my race car. But I've got a total of about 3 hours of track time there vs. his thousands, with him being a Cali local.

Spending your money on seat time is the right attitude to have, but there will be mods you will have to make just for durability's sake as you go. You'll still save a lot of money this way.

 

[Roadhouse]

Regarding track performance, and coming from someone who knows nothing about cars, here is what I've learned

Run as soft a rear sway as you can. Remove it entirely if you have the balls to do so (I don't).

Come to the dark side...muhahaha

 

[13Boss#3328]

At which point can I say the suspension is holding me back? is it all feel type of thing? or there will be like bottoming out? tire wear? is it like something you can verify objectively or just subjectively?

 

[DGRacing]

Re: Wha I've learned

I like this thread.

As many of you might know I am a big believer in keeping your Boss's suspension stock, because I think the Boss can outperform the driving skills of many.

Bomarito lapped Laguna Seca in 1:39.50! That is darn fast!

I guess my point is like beating a dead horse, improve the driver and only then try to improve the suspension.

I think that the roll, pitch, dive and the skittish rear end do NOT necessarily mean the car is not handling well.

It can feel unnerving indeed, however once you control your fears and focus on looking ahead and being smooth, you start being faster and ignore the body motion. It is a weight management deal and about how you keep all four rubbers passionately kissing the tarmac all the time.

Having said all of that, I would have to admit I geniunely do not understand what outdriving (or over-driving) the suspension means.

I need people like Andrew, Gary and the other experienced drivers to technically explain to me how the stock suspension comes short when you become a better and faster driver?? I guess at which point should I feel that I need better suspension setup?

@ArizonaBOSS
@blacksheep-1
@cloud9
@CorteX Racing

Further, good thread! And I do not mean to hijack it.

It has everything to do with weight transfer speeds, roll center movement and other suspension dynamics.....all of which have one purpose: maximize all four tires contact patch. The driver can only go as far as the suspension allows.

 

[further]

Come to the dark side...muhahaha

Love the tripod look.

I was checking out a 302s rear setup and noticed a tiny rear sway. Must have been no more than 12 mm.

 

[KBBOSS1086]

At which point can I say the suspension is holding me back? is it all feel type of thing? or there will be like bottoming out? tire wear? is it like something you can verify objectively or just subjectively?

I'd say when you are completely comfortable with the car, pushin at 10 10ths and unable to improve your lap times any further...When your skill is equal to the max capabilities of the stock suspension.

 

[BigTaco]

Love the tripod look.

I was checking out a 302s rear setup and noticed a tiny rear sway. Must have been no more than 12 mm.

Yes, but keep in mind the 302S uses the coil over shocks more to control body motion. With the stock/road version, the control of body motion is handled more by the sway bar.

 

[Grant 302]

I think I have to be in the minority on this, but the more I learn while upgrading my GT's suspension, the more I appreciate what went into designing the stock Boss suspension. Most of that is for its ability to perform as well as it does on and maintain excellent street manners. Sure, I think it can certainly be improved on. I understand why many want to. I just don't agree with any real 'need' to do so.

At which point can I say the suspension is holding me back? is it all feel type of thing? or there will be like bottoming out? tire wear? is it like something you can verify objectively or just subjectively?

Some aspects can be verified objectively like tire wear and bottoming out. I think the rest is subjective depending on driver experience and use. Even though the suspension will determine characteristics like absolute limits of grip and wear properties, it's up to each driver to decide what margin of grip remaining or wear pattern, etc. is acceptable.

I'd say when you are completely comfortable with the car, pushin at 10 10ths and unable to improve your lap times any further...When your skill is equal to the max capabilities of the stock suspension.

I don't know about that. I think most of us are still holding our cars back. Probably the most valuable thing I learned from the hot laps at Track Attack.

 

[Swede]

What if you're only prepared to go 9/10 to have some safety margin - but still want to go faster to beat that 911? Time for an upgrade ;-)