Which oil to use for track days for 2011 Mustang GT?

Discussion in 'Boss 302 and S197 Technical Forum' started by Creedog, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. Creedog

    Creedog TMO Intermediate

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    My first posting here on this forum. I have been involved for approx two years running track days in the ATL area. (Atlanta Motorsport Park and Road Atlanta) /
    I have a few events coming up in the next few months. This site was recommended to me from someone on svtperformance.com when we were discussing this very subject. I wanted to check in to see what people might say regarding this issue.

    I have done all the usual updates to the exhaust, suspension, braking, and cooling mods for my 2011. I run the Boss 302 oil cooler, Boss 302s grill, and Ford performance aluminum radiator. I run the standard oil 5w 20 for the past two years (7 events). He mentioned I should run the Boss 302 oil 5w 50. There is Napa sale going on but I am not sure I want to make the jump over to this oil. I always change the oil/filter right before and after the event. I am aware the 5w 50 will handle the heat better but should I stick w/ the 5w 20 since it is a 2011 model? Any advice would be helpful. thanks
     
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  2. Creedog

    Creedog TMO Intermediate

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    I also have the GT500 radiator fan.
     
  3. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Welcome to TMO!

    Ford Racing/Ford Performance recommends 5W-50 for all Coyote engine variants for the track/HPDE. Can't hurt to give them a call if you want to hear it directly from them.

    Essentially, 5W-50 will protect the engine better than 5W-20 at high temps and high RPM.

    I've been running 5W-50 in my 2011 GT with the Boss cooler and an external oil to air Setrab 925. My Boss is stock except for cooling mods and of course gets 5W-50.

    Engines like ours with the oil squirters/piston cooling jets transfer heat loads to the oil very quickly. Heavier weight oils perform better under these high heat loads.

    .....

    Unrelated, but if you don't have another tune, I do like the Ford Performance ProCal tune for better throttle response for heel-toe blip rev matching.
     
  4. Creedog

    Creedog TMO Intermediate

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    I will check with Ford Racing on this. I have recently added a tune in the car. I purchased the Lund NGauge tuner. I liked the fact you can mount it inside and monitor certain variables while driving and it’s ease of use. Unfortunately I can’t view oil temps for this model year. I checked with them and no luck. I can check engine operating temps, knock sensors, and air/fuel ratio. A great unit which has work really well on the street but I have not run it yet at the track. It is a stock N/A tune with stock air box (K&N filter).

    I have heard good things about the Ford Procal but the NGauge I feel offers me more at this time.

    The person I spoke with at svtperformance has a external oil cooler as well, Mishimoto unit. Can you run the Boss cooler along with the aftermarket oil cooler at the same time? He mentioned I might need a sandwich plate? Any recommendations and parts needed to run an external oil cooler to go alone with the Boss unit?
     
  5. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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  6. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    I've never strayed from 5W-50, since that's what specified on my Boss's filler cap...It must be there for a reason.........
     
  7. JDee

    JDee Ancient Racer

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    Well, this can o' worms. With the Gen 1 Coyote, the Boss and even the Track Pack cars had 5W-50 on the oil filler cap. But the S550 Gen2s, including the PP cars, all say 5W20 and the manual doesn't call for anything other than that. Even in their little page 12 discussion in the owner's manual of how you should treat your car for track use just says change the oil after every event, nothing about using something heavier than 5W20.

    To quote:
    In addition, if the vehicle is subjected to
    dedicated road course use, we recommend
    the following vehicle durability
    maintenance:
    • Change your axle lubricant and friction
    modifier after the initial (first) hour of
    high-speed operation; thereafter
    change the axle lubricant and friction
    modifier every 12 hours (under these
    conditions).
    • Change your transmission oil after each
    event where your vehicle is subjected
    to individual on-track sessions
    exceeding 15 minutes.
    • Change your engine oil and filter after
    each event.

    So what's with that? This topic is almost like discussing religion or politics or.....whatever. I used 5W20 full synthetic last year and no issues, but I respected the stock redline and only ran 20 minute sessions in mild temperatures, nothing extreme. I am thinking of changing to 5W30 synthetic this year because, well, just because, but I have a hard time convincing myself 5W50 is the right choice or necessary, simply because of what Ford says, or doesn't say.....
     
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  8. Creedog

    Creedog TMO Intermediate

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    “Well, this can o' worms.”

    That made me chuckle. I guess opinions vary on this issue and I appreciate all the advice so far. I’m still on the fence on this one so I will keep trying to find out as much as I can.

    Any opinions on this oil cooler kit?
    https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-mustang-5-0l-oil-cooler-kit-11-14.html

    Again more research on all my options available and learn more as I go. Thanks
     
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  9. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    Jdee, What oil call out is on your oil filler cap?If it's 5W-20 you're doing fine...If you want to try 5W-50, go for it.
     
  10. Surfergeek

    Surfergeek TMO Race

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    I have been running 5W-50 in my '13 GT for road course events and multiple road course events between changes with a road race oil pan (added capacity) without oil cooler, but plenty of other cooling mods for my supercharged motor (giant radiator, gt500 fan, giant heat exchanger, heat exchanger fans) and have not had any issues with oil temps or coolant temps in all kinds of weather. It's the only thing that is in my engine, not changing weights at all.

    It's more expensive, but I have been running Amsoil oils and other fluids and been getting excellent life out of them. I change the transmission fluid and differential fluid once a season (6-8 days on track and street driving in between) and everything checks out beautiful. Oil gets changed two or three times a season.
     
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  11. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    That is a good value, but my personal preference would be a Setrab cooler. The comparative Setrab coolers have a lot lower pressure drop across the cooler. The Mishimoto test report for that kit reports an average pressure loss of 7 psi. The comparable Setrab 25 row coolers have a 2 - 2.5 psi pressure drop. But, the Setrab coolers are a lot more expensive. I doubt the Mishimoto's pressure drop would cause an issue, but I would use the cooler with the lowest pressure drop if possible.

    Keep the factory water to oil cooler. A number of people on the board, to include myself, have run with an without the OEM water to oil cooler with an external air to ail cooler. All of us observed higher oil temperatures on track without the OEM cooler. I am not sure what you will need to purchase to make the Mishimoto kit work with the factory cooler.

    If want to put your own kit together using a Setrab cooler, the links provided above are a good starting point. 06mach1 also has the appropriate mount for sale:

    https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/setrab-oil-cooler-bracket-for-s197.11514/

    Finally, if you want a kit that has a great cooler and will work with the OEM unit, look at Cool Tech's kit

    http://www.cooltechllc.com/ford-boss-302-parts-accessories/25-2011-302-oil-cooler-no-thermostat.html

    This kit is not cheap, but it has very good components.
     
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  12. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    Oh, and use 5W50 for the track.
     
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  13. JDee

    JDee Ancient Racer

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    It says 5W-20. I don't think I want to try 5W-50, I think there may be differences in clearances between the Gen1 and Gen2 engines and perhaps using a 50 weight oil in a (stock) Gen 2 engine would actually be bad.

    I always used 15W-50 racing oil back in the day, it was a built engine and that was the only oil that would survive the turbo heat. But oil is way different now, as are engines. I highlight (stock) because once you get into built or high revving motors your engine builder is the guy to go to on oil weight, not the manufacturer.

    So I have this predisposition to actually like using a 50 weight oil, but I also have this belief that if it was good or necessary for the (stock) Gen 2 motor, Ford would say so, they sure did for the Gen 1s.

    That predisposition to like a heavier oil makes me think that a 5W-30 might be a good compromise, maybe a touch more protection but not enough film thickness to cause flow rate issues in bearings and such?

    I tend to think about shit too much, I think.o_O
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  14. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Think about it more, and call Ford Performance with your questions and specific concerns. ;) :)
     
  15. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Just my opinion, but I think Ford got a LOT of questions and hassle about using 5W-50 in the Track Pack cars. For 5W-20, it probably *is* a reasonably safe recommendation to use it new for exactly 1 track day.

    It uses the same engine, but has nearly double the oil capacity so perhaps even 5W-50 at 8.5 quarts should be changed every track day or 2 hours run time. I change every 3 track days @ 4 x 20min sessions/day.


    Without getting into details, at track temperatures there will be no issues with flow rates for 5W-50 in bearings, galleys, etc. But cam phasers are 'calibrated' to expected viscosities in normal use so timing could be slightly affected by time to fill chambers in the phaser. Position holding ability only increases with higher viscosities...one reason I believe 5W-50 is needed for TracKey idle to function best from my own observations.

    The o-ring in their sandwich plate doesn't mate very well to the Boss cooler. 06mach1 had a picture of it, but it might be lost to the photobucket issue.

    Just my opinion, the the 7 psi drop is only an issue when the pump is in relief and the bypass is operating. Choosing the lower drop in the similar sized Setrab was easy.
     
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  16. JDee

    JDee Ancient Racer

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    Cam phasers! Jeezum kripes, my last race car had these little offset keys that you put into the cam sprocket to adjust the cam timing and you advanced timing until you overheated or put a hole in a piston, the latter happened if you weren't bright enough to watch that temp gauge really close.

    More reading to do on that phaser/oil viscosity thing.....
     
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  17. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    I think Grant is spot on but call Ford Performance and they will be happy to discuss this topic with you.
     
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  18. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Google: cam torque actuated phaser
    Lots to read and watch on that first page.

    Gen2 Coyotes are mid-lock phasers (for improved starting emissions) opposed to Gen1 that lock on one side of the adjustment range (full retard IIRC).

    Back to this point...I do think that ambient conditions affect oil performance and requirements. Some of the tracks I run are high-desert and arid 95º conditions are my personal limit. I consider 5W-50 and adequate oil cooling as protection for running in those conditions. I certainly understand that in cooler fall/winter conditions that I could probably run lower viscosities without issue. I've only run one oil analysis with Blackstone for my GT and there wasn't anything out of line for wear metals there using 5W-50. I don't have a *lot* of faith in what oil analysis provides aside from either 'everything looks normal' or 'your engine is getting damaged and about to die'. Everything looked normal and I'll continue to use 5W-50.
     
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  19. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Used oil analysis for my GT and 5W-50 Mobil 1 for 3 track days 4 hours and 2,800 street miles:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. BigTaco

    BigTaco TMO Addict

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    It is correct that S197 track pack cars and non track pack cars had the same engine. Track pack cars got the Boss oil cooler/radiator and 5W50 oil recommendation. There was also a different calibration. The cam phasers are effected by using different Viscosity and the calibrations take this into account. Call Ford performance for clarification; that’s where I discovered this information.


    For Gen2 owners (and non-track pack S197 with an aftermarket oil cooler), you could just use a really good 5w20 Synthetic and move on to bigger and better things.

    Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but NASCAR engines have been running 5w20 in race trim for decades. 9000+ RPM in engines that have crazy piston speeds and 800+HP.

    Granted, they use different base oils but you can get it for your mustang.

    Try Driven FR20 or M1 Annual Protection. Always go with the Viscosity the OEM (or Ford Performance if you will) recommends. Ford will always recommend Motorcraft because they have to. It’s not going to Damage your engine but you can get way better protection from the other brands I mentioned. Driven FR20 and M1 Annual Protection are the only brands I know of that use mPAO base oils. You can Google PAO vs mPAO and geek out.

    If it were my money, I’d get the FR20 since I know it uses the same base oil used in NASCAR with and additive package taylored for Coyote motors. Just my $.02.

    BT
     
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