Which tire for an HPDE Mustang.

[EF1]

Really look at the tire specs for each brand/tire you are considering. I was running 285/35/19 Toyo R888r's on my 10" Apex EC7 wheels last season. I corded them in the fall and had a set on back order for weeks. I came across a set of the same tire in 275/35/19. The overall width on the same wheels was virtually identical. The published data also lists the tread width as being a 1/10" wider on the 275. I am just having fun at the track and running non competitive classes, but I have not noticed a measurable difference in lap times.

Something else to consider is the ECF in 295/30/19 shows a sectional width of 12.1" and a tread width of only 10.5", so it will always looked bulged while the contact patch will be similar to a smaller sized tire from other manufacturers.

 

[thelostotter]

The Goodyear Supercar 3 in 285/35R19 could be a good option. I've got my first set of them mounted waiting for my next track day in a couple weeks. But I've heard good things for a weekend warrior car.

 

[EF1]

The Goodyear Supercar 3 in 285/35R19 could be a good option. I've got my first set of them mounted waiting for my next track day in a couple weeks. But I've heard good things for a weekend warrior car.

Let us know how they do. I have been considering trying a set of those next. They fit my 10" wide wheels and should fit without spacers. I am curious how fast they wear.

 

[vetracer]

The Goodyear Supercar 3 in 285/35R19 could be a good option. I've got my first set of them mounted waiting for my next track day in a couple weeks. But I've heard good things for a weekend warrior car.

Let me know how they work out for you.

 

[vetracer]

I am in a quandry about which tire to buy for my mostly track day 2011 GT. Car has full suspension and brake preparation and after 2 years of development the car handles great. I'm currently running a 19x10 Apex EC 7 wheel square set up with 255/35-19 Firestone Indy 500 tires. Yes I know the tires are too small but it's what I had on hand when putting on the wheels. Frankly I really like the 500's. They have very good grip, wear like iron and are affordable for a retiree. The down side is they can get greasey towards the end of a 20 minute session. Now that I've saved up the money I plan to go to a 285/35-19 square set up and I've narrowed my choice down to another set of 500's or Michelin PS4's. My quandry is the cost benefit trade off between the Michelins which cost $1600 or the Firestones which cost $1100. Being retired I can't buy tires too often. I'm also concerned all the chassis development was done on the Firestones. I don't know if the Michelins would require a different set up. Anyone's thought or recommendations would be appreciated.

Since my original post I've been doing lots of homework and I'm leaning toward getting a set of 285/35ZR19 Goodyear Eagle F1 Super Car 3 tires. They have 220 tread wear rating, 10.5" tread width, good overall reviews and is a reasonable cost tack oriented tire I can drive too and from the track. Just as important is that they are available. Sebring is 100 miles from me on mostly 2 lane roads and Homestead is 82 miles on a torn up turnpike. I plan to mount one of my current tires on a performance pack spare rim I have so I can carry a spare with me to and from the track. My question is have any of you guys(or gals) run these tires and if so, what is your thoughts on how well they work on a track Mustang? Also, what tire pressures did you run and did you have to make any other suspension mods to get these tires to work. My question is because I've max'd out camber at 2 degrees with my current camber plates and Koni sports.

 

[stevbd]

Since my original post I've been doing lots of homework and I'm leaning toward getting a set of 285/35ZR19 Goodyear Eagle F1 Super Car 3 tires. They have 220 tread wear rating, 10.5" tread width, good overall reviews and is a reasonable cost tack oriented tire I can drive too and from the track. Just as important is that they are available. Sebring is 100 miles from me on mostly 2 lane roads and Homestead is 82 miles on a torn up turnpike. I plan to mount one of my current tires on a performance pack spare rim I have so I can carry a spare with me to and from the track. My question is have any of you guys(or gals) run these tires and if so, what is your thoughts on how well they work on a track Mustang? Also, what tire pressures did you run and did you have to make any other suspension mods to get these tires to work. My question is because I've max'd out camber at 2 degrees with my current camber plates and Koni sports.

I used GY SC3 last season on my 2011 GT and liked them. HPDE not racing. To me they felt similar to my prior RE71 but a bit faster and maybe not quite as heat sensitive. They are a good dual purpose, drive to the track, drive home type of tire. Really solid in the dry imo. Not good in standing water but not terrible in the wet at least when new. This year I'm moving to separate dry and rain tires because it did get a little tedious watching thunderclouds in the distance and wondering how I was going to get home - especially as the tires wore down and the treads disappeared.

I ran them about 35-36 psi hot. There is a Goodyear winged foot emblem on the sidewall you can use to judge pressure and wear. I got a couple thousand miles on them between track and driving to the track. I run 305/30/19 square with a 25 mm spacer in front and 3 degrees neg camber. I don't have any experience with your proposed sizing. Check out the excellent Apex fitment guide: https://support.apexraceparts.com/h...5526493-S197-Mustang-Wheel-Tire-Fitment-Guide

 

[vetracer]

I am in a quandry about which tire to buy for my mostly track day 2011 GT. Car has full suspension and brake preparation and after 2 years of development the car handles great. I'm currently running a 19x10 Apex EC 7 wheel square set up with 255/35-19 Firestone Indy 500 tires. Yes I know the tires are too small but it's what I had on hand when putting on the wheels. Frankly I really like the 500's. They have very good grip, wear like iron and are affordable for a retiree. The down side is they can get greasey towards the end of a 20 minute session. Now that I've saved up the money I plan to go to a 285/35-19 square set up and I've narrowed my choice down to another set of 500's or Michelin PS4's. My quandry is the cost benefit trade off between the Michelins which cost $1600 or the Firestones which cost $1100. Being retired I can't buy tires too often. I'm also concerned all the chassis development was done on the Firestones. I don't know if the Michelins would require a different set up. Anyone's thought or recommendations would be appreciated.

I've done more research and I've found best tire. Unfortunately it's not available in U.S. It's the Continental Sport Contact 7 available in Europe. A German magazine, Sport Auto did extensive testing at the Michelin test track in France using all the top rated tires and rated the Conti 7 the best. Check out You Tube video of test. I called Tire Rack and tire is listed OE equipment on certain Lambo models. As far as Tire Rack knows there are no plans to bring tire to U.S. Given I live in Florida and have to drive, not trailer 100 miles to nearest track they strongly recommended the Continental Extreme Contact Sport. The small difference in dry performance it gives up in the dry to the PS4 it makes up in superior performance in the wet. Having hydroplaned off the road once, I'll take their advice.

 

[thelostotter]

Let me know how they work out for you.

Ran them for the first time last weekend. Settled on 37psi front, 36 rear, hot. Beat my previous best at this track by about 2 seconds (previous best was on NT01s) but I had made some other suspension changes that are contributing as well. I will say the GY SC3s were much less temperamental than the NT01s, and I feel the outright grip is better and the break away characteristics are better too. Wear is pretty similar so far but the NT01s started falling apart after 4 days so I expect the GY to beat that by maybe 1.5X and they are cheaper to boot.

In each session my fastest lap was my first hot lap after 1 warm up lap.

So far they seem like a faster RS4, at the expense of quicker wear. I won't be going back to the NT01s.

I'm running -3.05 degrees camber up front and -2.0 in the back, FYI.

 

[Cornerz]

I've done more research and I've found best tire. Unfortunately it's not available in U.S. It's the Continental Sport Contact 7 available in Europe. A German magazine, Sport Auto did extensive testing at the Michelin test track in France using all the top rated tires and rated the Conti 7 the best. Check out You Tube video of test. I called Tire Rack and tire is listed OE equipment on certain Lambo models. As far as Tire Rack knows there are no plans to bring tire to U.S. Given I live in Florida and have to drive, not trailer 100 miles to nearest track they strongly recommended the Continental Extreme Contact Sport. The small difference in dry performance it gives up in the dry to the PS4 it makes up in superior performance in the wet. Having hydroplaned off the road once, I'll take their advice.

I chose the Extreme Contact Sport for mine this year. It’sa dual use enthusiast/track/autocross car, so I needed the wet capability.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Wow bummer sc3 biggest in 18 is 275/40.

 

[Mark Bedel]

Hi All:
Since this is an HPDE tire thread, I figured I throw out a tire/wheel issue I've been struggling with for about a year and half. I'll set the seen for my 2017 GT Performance Pack's suspension which is stock except for the following: Vorshlag Custom Spec Offset ForgeStar F-14 wheels, 11" x 19 all four corners, Vorshlag Camber Plates, I also enlarged strut tower openings with their cutting tool, Steeda Sport Lowering Springs, 1 1/8" in the front and 1" lower in the rear, progressive rate, 150-180 lbs./in front and 525-820 lbs./in rear, and lastly, 305-30-19 Michelin Sport 4S at all four corners, basically a square set up. They have the same section width as the RE71R's that the folks at Vorshlag used on their 2018 GT with the F-14's, but the tread on the Michelin's is about .4 mm wider.

My issue is tire rub at the tops of the front fender openings. My alignment shop has been gradually increasing the camber settings which are now currently set at negative camber at -3.70 on the left front and -3.74 on the right front, with +7.01 caster (LF), +6.65 caster (RF), +0.02 Toe (LF), and +0.00 Toe (RF). I have my first track day of this season coming up in July, and with rubbing on spirited back road outings, I'm clearly concerned about taking it to a track session.

I don't really want to purchase a new set of wheels if I don't have to. I see that Ford Performance has a set of Mach 1 cast wheels 10 1/2" wide x 19" fronts and 11" wide x 19" rears for sale. They weigh about 17lbs. more per wheel than ForgeStar wheels. I've been told by several folks that 10 1/2" wide is as wide as one can go on the front and expect not to have any interference.

When I talk with my friends at Vorshlag though, apparently I seem to be the only one who has had any clearance issues with their spec wheels? Maybe a bad set? So, do I keep the ForgeStar's and swap the springs to stiffer units to limit suspension compression? I only track the car a few times a season currently, but with plans to hopefully do more.

I was told that the GT 350R Springs are the stiffest set that one can run with factory struts, 240 lbs./in front and 914 lbs./in rear. Plus I believe that this spring set would return the car to its factory ride height, which maybe could help with clearance?

Do I buy one tire size down with the P4's, 295-30-19 for the front? Is splitting 10 millimeters, 5 inside and 5 outside enough to buy me the clearance I seek? I've been told that the wheel has more of an effect than a tire size change would.

So, I'm not sure where to throw my money next to solve this issue. Less expensive would certainly be the more attractive route. I'm planning on contacting ForgeStar directly to see if they offer a 10" wide F-14 front, that way, I'd be certain to clear the fenders, even though it defeats the purpose of a square set up, probably have to go with a 285 or 275 - 40 x 19" tires though.

Thoughts?

 

[TMSBOSS]

Mark

What does Vorshlag suggest? They built the wheels and have a bunch of experience with their set up.
I run 315 705 19 pirellis on an 11” wheel without rubbing on my 350r.

 

[TorqueAholic]

I'm a bit surprised no one mentioned the Falken Azenis RT 660's? It's a goto tire in the WRL and other endurance series and I think for good reasons. I've just tried a set on my ol' 2000GT street / track car at AMP a few weeks back and I'm very impressed. I'd say the grip level is not far from Hosiers from 8-10 years back. The are affordable, and you can even flip them on the rims to get more wear. I was impressed by how well held-up too, not too much wear so far, and they are even surprisingly good in the rain.

The only downside as a street tire is they ride about the same as my Hoosiers A6's used to ride back in the day: Fred Flintstone hard I don't care, the suspension is so stiff anyway, this car doesn't ride smooth on the highway with any tire.

They come in 275/35/18 or 285/30/18 for something close to what you mentionned.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Falken&tireModel=Azenis+RT660&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=735WR8RT660&tab=Sizes

 

[Dave_W]

Vorshlag Custom Spec Offset ForgeStar F-14 wheels, 11" x 19 all four corners, Vorshlag Camber Plates, I also enlarged strut tower openings with their cutting tool, Steeda Sport Lowering Springs, 1 1/8" in the front and 1" lower in the rear, progressive rate, 150-180 lbs./in front and 525-820 lbs./in rear, and lastly, 305-30-19 Michelin Sport 4S at all four corners...

My issue is tire rub at the tops of the front fender openings

First, check the offset / backspacing on the wheels. While technically backspace is measured on the inside of the rim lip, you can measure using a straightedge across the back of the wheel rim (not the tire sidewall) and a tape measure to find the distance from the straightedge to the wheel mounting pad.


Check all 4 wheels; the fronts on a Vorshlag "no spacer" setup should have less distance from the rear lip to the hub pad surface, probably by about 1". Contact Vorshlag with your numbers, and how you measured, to confirm that there isn't a machining issue.

I think the amount of lowering vs stiffness of the front springs is a factor in this case. You could try an old-school & cheap fix of inserting a spring "rubber" (spacer / packer) into the coil spring to expand the spacing of one coil of the spring. You can play with the height of the rubber (and number of rubbers) to change the amount of lift. Take a look at the current gap between the coils on the front springs to get a ballpark idea of what height to try. I'd shoot for raising the front about 1/2" - 3/4" from the 1-1/8" drop you have now. The rubber also increases the spring rate, but it also puts the coil into solid bind at a higher height, though that can be act as a bump stop; but it can also create handling problems if the spring goes "solid" too easily in a corner. (Tradeoffs, tradeoffs...)
Examples of spring rubbers: https://www.oreillyauto.com/pcp?compares=SPR-18-1901,SPR-18-1930,SPR-18-1960&partTypeId=N1716

 

[bnight]

Hi All:
Since this is an HPDE tire thread, I figured I throw out a tire/wheel issue I've been struggling with for about a year and half. I'll set the seen for my 2017 GT Performance Pack's suspension which is stock except for the following: Vorshlag Custom Spec Offset ForgeStar F-14 wheels, 11" x 19 all four corners, Vorshlag Camber Plates, I also enlarged strut tower openings with their cutting tool, Steeda Sport Lowering Springs, 1 1/8" in the front and 1" lower in the rear, progressive rate, 150-180 lbs./in front and 525-820 lbs./in rear, and lastly, 305-30-19 Michelin Sport 4S at all four corners, basically a square set up. They have the same section width as the RE71R's that the folks at Vorshlag used on their 2018 GT with the F-14's, but the tread on the Michelin's is about .4 mm wider.

My issue is tire rub at the tops of the front fender openings. My alignment shop has been gradually increasing the camber settings which are now currently set at negative camber at -3.70 on the left front and -3.74 on the right front, with +7.01 caster (LF), +6.65 caster (RF), +0.02 Toe (LF), and +0.00 Toe (RF). I have my first track day of this season coming up in July, and with rubbing on spirited back road outings, I'm clearly concerned about taking it to a track session.

Thoughts?

If you are rubbing on the top of the front fenders you have 2 issues going on 1st not enough camber / wheels are sticking out to much (what is the custom offset on this ?) and 2nd your springs are sitting to low and are not doing a great job and handling load transfers. First for track progressive springs are not ideal and also based on the rates this are softer than OEM PP1 springs not sure what the benefit of that is. Second you are having a lot of drop 1 1/8 inch in the front. Vorshlag suggest no more than 1" front drop. Cheapest solution if you still have OEM PP1 springs is to just fit that instead of your lowering springs they are similar rate but are more than 1" higher so this will prevent the rubbing. Otherwise a good set of linear springs will help out I think Steeda have a great set of min drop springs 0.5" drop with 200/800 lbs linear rate which will be ideal if you never changed your shocks/struts and are looking to solve that issue. Also 295/30 tires in the front might help but you need to measure how much space you actually need. Hope this helps.

 

[TorqueAholic]

If you are rubbing on the top of the front fenders you have 2 issues going on 1st not enough camber / wheels are sticking out to much (what is the custom offset on this ?) and 2nd your springs are sitting to low and are not doing a great job and handling load transfers. First for track progressive springs are not ideal and also based on the rates this are softer than OEM PP1 springs not sure what the benefit of that is. Second you are having a lot of drop 1 1/8 inch in the front. Vorshlag suggest no more than 1" front drop. Cheapest solution if you still have OEM PP1 springs is to just fit that instead of your lowering springs they are similar rate but are more than 1" higher so this will prevent the rubbing. Otherwise a good set of linear springs will help out I think Steeda have a great set of min drop springs 0.5" drop with 200/800 lbs linear rate which will be ideal if you never changed your shocks/struts and are looking to solve that issue. Also 295/30 tires in the front might help but you need to measure how much space you actually need. Hope this helps.

If you are rubbing on the top of the front fenders you have 2 issues going on 1st not enough camber / wheels are sticking out to much (what is the custom offset on this ?) and 2nd your springs are sitting to low and are not doing a great job and handling load transfers. First for track progressive springs are not ideal and also based on the rates this are softer than OEM PP1 springs not sure what the benefit of that is. Second you are having a lot of drop 1 1/8 inch in the front. Vorshlag suggest no more than 1" front drop. Cheapest solution if you still have OEM PP1 springs is to just fit that instead of your lowering springs they are similar rate but are more than 1" higher so this will prevent the rubbing. Otherwise a good set of linear springs will help out I think Steeda have a great set of min drop springs 0.5" drop with 200/800 lbs linear rate which will be ideal if you never changed your shocks/struts and are looking to solve that issue. Also 295/30 tires in the front might help but you need to measure how much space you actually need. Hope this helps.

Another reason why Vorshlag recommends no more than 1" drop is that it screws-up the roll center. Excessively lowering the ride height lowers the roll center too much which will actually increase body roll because of the elongated roll moment.

In short: That defeats what you're trying to accomplish. Strut suspensions are particularly affected because of their geometry.

Here are some explanations: https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/roll-centre-and-roll-moment/

 

[vetracer]

Hi All:
Since this is an HPDE tire thread, I figured I throw out a tire/wheel issue I've been struggling with for about a year and half. I'll set the seen for my 2017 GT Performance Pack's suspension which is stock except for the following: Vorshlag Custom Spec Offset ForgeStar F-14 wheels, 11" x 19 all four corners, Vorshlag Camber Plates, I also enlarged strut tower openings with their cutting tool, Steeda Sport Lowering Springs, 1 1/8" in the front and 1" lower in the rear, progressive rate, 150-180 lbs./in front and 525-820 lbs./in rear, and lastly, 305-30-19 Michelin Sport 4S at all four corners, basically a square set up. They have the same section width as the RE71R's that the folks at Vorshlag used on their 2018 GT with the F-14's, but the tread on the Michelin's is about .4 mm wider.

My issue is tire rub at the tops of the front fender openings. My alignment shop has been gradually increasing the camber settings which are now currently set at negative camber at -3.70 on the left front and -3.74 on the right front, with +7.01 caster (LF), +6.65 caster (RF), +0.02 Toe (LF), and +0.00 Toe (RF). I have my first track day of this season coming up in July, and with rubbing on spirited back road outings, I'm clearly concerned about taking it to a track session.

I don't really want to purchase a new set of wheels if I don't have to. I see that Ford Performance has a set of Mach 1 cast wheels 10 1/2" wide x 19" fronts and 11" wide x 19" rears for sale. They weigh about 17lbs. more per wheel than ForgeStar wheels. I've been told by several folks that 10 1/2" wide is as wide as one can go on the front and expect not to have any interference.

When I talk with my friends at Vorshlag though, apparently I seem to be the only one who has had any clearance issues with their spec wheels? Maybe a bad set? So, do I keep the ForgeStar's and swap the springs to stiffer units to limit suspension compression? I only track the car a few times a season currently, but with plans to hopefully do more.

I was told that the GT 350R Springs are the stiffest set that one can run with factory struts, 240 lbs./in front and 914 lbs./in rear. Plus I believe that this spring set would return the car to its factory ride height, which maybe could help with clearance?

Do I buy one tire size down with the P4's, 295-30-19 for the front? Is splitting 10 millimeters, 5 inside and 5 outside enough to buy me the clearance I seek? I've been told that the wheel has more of an effect than a tire size change would.

So, I'm not sure where to throw my money next to solve this issue. Less expensive would certainly be the more attractive route. I'm planning on contacting ForgeStar directly to see if they offer a 10" wide F-14 front, that way, I'd be certain to clear the fenders, even though it defeats the purpose of a square set up, probably have to go with a 285 or 275 - 40 x 19" tires though.

Thoughts?

On the S197 the front fender lip extends into the wheel well. I assume its the same on an S550. That's where I would expect you to get your rubbing. Your cheapest solution is to have the fender lip rolled parallel to the outer fender.

 

[RES_22]

Seems to me that the wheel/tire grip capabilities of your current package has exceeded the weight transfer control capabilities of your current package. Won't end well once you start tracking the thing.

As others have recc'd above...ask Vorshlag to verify the offset of all four of your wheels. At the same time, though, you should prolly anticipate that they're fine, and you can best address the issue now (and in future, once you continue down the track modding rathole) by installing the Ford Perf track suspension.

Cheaper than new wheels/tires...broad performance capabilities too. Many happy customers - both track and street - on this forum.