Whiteline Watts Link Restoration?

[BackInBlack]

Hey guys, just want to ask your opinion. So this car is a daily driven street car that will mostly only ever see spirited driving and maybe a couple HPDE runs. It was built from salvage and the primary donor was a 2012 BOSS 302 that came with a Whiteline watts link on it. It's old, but we got it adjusted right and it seemed OK but now that I've got all of my suspension worked out I'm realizing that the bushings on it are bad (the tell was clunks over uneven roads especially while at low speed and while turning). I've read others say that Whiteline has good support and that they still have parts for this thing, so I called them but the guy I spoke to said they don't support it anymore and the only part I can find online is the bushing for the center pivot...

I see that some of you guys still run these things. Do you have a source of replacement bushings?

On the plus side, I doubt I'll be driving this car hard enough to cause the propeller to shear off as has happened to some of you guys. On the negative side, it looks like it may be a pain in the ass to maintain. If I had to get rid of it I'd probably make @blacksheep-1 happy and just go panhard bar. But it seems like not a bad part, and I'm sure costed some bucks back in the day. Would like to save it if I can. But in its current condition the panhard bar would probably be an upgrade...

 

[mwjscn]

I bet you could take the ID of the rod arm opening, the OD of the bolt sleeve, and the thickness from one of the surviving edges of the bushing and find generic bushings that fit. It's easier for companies to design around common sizing and copy-paste work that's already been done. The reason they offered their own now-discontinued flavor was likely because of their bespoke 'synthetic elastomer' material. If you ask their technical support, perhaps they'd even be able to give you those measurements since they're obviously out of the game and still may want to support a past product.

 

[xr7]

I pull the propeller off and inspect it annually. If i take a spin off the track I will also pull it for inspection. There's very little weld holding the pins for the arms onto the propeller. Its easy to remove. So far the replacement propeller has not shown any signs of the welds cracking.

 

[BackInBlack]

I bet you could take the ID of the rod arm opening

Yeah ... that means its gotta come off the car (cause its my daily driver). And if it comes off its probably staying off... Maybe I'll try and fix it anyway and give it a try someday when I feel like putting it back on. Best bet would probably be to go to the Cortex, but I just don't have a need for it.

Well if I do remove it I bet somebody at TMO could put it to good use...

 

[BackInBlack]

OK guys -- bad news and good news. Lifted up the car and messed around with the watts link. Good news is, I think I was wrong about the bushings, I couldn't get any of them to move. But there's play in there somewhere so I started messing around with stuff.

Noticed 2 things:
1. Passenger side link arm was installed backwards Looks like my mechanic missed that part of the manual I gave him. Is it important? I dunno, but the manual says that the side with the machined ring on it goes towards the driver's side.
2. The back side of the same link was hiding a crack. The outer casing of the link is split longways, from the end with the machined ring on it (which is on backwards and is facing the passenger side of the car) to about 5 inches down.

Question: This thing is done ain't it? Pretty sure this means it'd snap under a hard load but just thought I'd ask you guys.

I may have some more spare parts you can use @xr7 ...

 

[blacksheep-1]

OK guys -- bad news and good news. Lifted up the car and messed around with the watts link. Good news is, I think I was wrong about the bushings, I couldn't get any of them to move. But there's play in there somewhere so I started messing around with stuff.

Noticed 2 things:
1. Passenger side link arm was installed backwards Looks like my mechanic missed that part of the manual I gave him. Is it important? I dunno, but the manual says that the side with the machined ring on it goes towards the driver's side.
2. The back side of the same link was hiding a crack. The outer casing of the link is split longways, from the end with the machined ring on it (which is on backwards and is facing the passenger side of the car) to about 5 inches down.

Question: This thing is done ain't it? Pretty sure this means it'd snap under a hard load but just thought I'd ask you guys.

I may have some more spare parts you can use @xr7 ...

View attachment 98815

Yep, it's done. This is the same kind of stuff we discovered back in the Grand Am/ PWC days that soured us on the whole Watts deal.
It's just asking too much of the cover to be used as a suspension point.

 

[BackInBlack]

Roger that. Panhard it is! If anyone wants the parts send me a message. If not I might put em on eBay or something. Gotta be worth something since you can't buy them anymore...

 

[67GTA]

I may have some more spare parts you can use

My Whiteline Watts met the same fate of spare parts for @LIGISTX , who re-engineered the center pivot on his. Cortex is the solution.

 

[BackInBlack]

Talked to my mechanic today and they had no problem taking responsibility. I'll buy the parts and they'll swap them in for me under labor warranty. Fair enough. Gonna go all stock BOSS for now. Bought OEM panhard + BOSS OEM diff cover. Will relocate diff vent to where it belongs on the BOSS diff cover and will try lubelocker diff gasket. May get an adjustable panhard later but would like to have the OEM one for reference so it'll do for now. Also using OEM diff fluid + XL3 friction modifier. Parts go on next week. Will update on how she feels when it's done!

I'll have a full Whiteline Watts Link kit left over, minus the passenger side link arm (bushings are still good I think). If anyone is interested send me a message and I'll give you a good deal.

Meanwhile, I'll see if I can get my wife to pose in a bikini in front of the car for the calendar

 

[BackInBlack]

Whiteline Watts Link vs OEM Panhard Bar

Swap complete. I'm now on a fully stock suspension setup on my BOSS 302. Just thought I'd do a review for anyone interested. I took the car for a few hard drives and took as many high speed turns as I could to try to recognize differences. My car was built using parts from a wrecked BOSS 302 that came with a Whiteline watts link on it so this is the first time I've experienced the full BOSS OEM configuration on this car.

1. Less clunking noise. I knew the watts was making some noise, apparently it was less than I thought because there's still a little noise back there but it is less than before. (I drive with my rear seats permanently folded down so I do get some extra noise from that.)
2. I'm pretty sure this is to be expected, but the rear of the car seems to sit slightly lower now. I can tell this from crawling under the car (on the ground/not jacked up) before vs after. I can't go as far under the car now as before. I would guess that this also means that my roll center is slightly lower? Which I think would be an expected change between the panhard bar vs the watts link. FYI, the WL watts was set using the lower position.
3. Smooth driving. The car drives slightly smoother now on straights, there is slightly less NVH, including (unexpectedly) a little less driveline vibration. I have a dash mount for my cell phone and usually it'll vibrate a little if I go above 85mph in 5th gear. Not a big deal, but I noticed that it doesn't do this anymore. The center console vibration also seems to be slightly lessened. I'm thinking maybe this is because the pinion angle is now spot-on OEM? On straights, the car feels more planted ... I'd guess due to the roll center change...
4. As one would expect, when taking a hard turn at high speed, the car seems a little less solid. It does seem to move a bit more. In response to this, I increased the rebound setting on the OEM BOSS rear shocks to 3 (I was previously using 3 on the front and 2 on the rear).

Let me know what ya'll think.

I should note that I don't think my watts link was properly maintained/adjusted. TBH I think it needs a good cleaning/greasing and I think the arms were extended a bit too much. When I was trying to adjust it before, while I think I had the arms evenly placed, the propeller wouldn't articulate as I expected it to. Now that it is off the car, I would say the bushings could use some grease. It was basically swapped from the salvage donor car as-is and then gradually adjusted afterwards.

BTW, that crack in the watts link arm that I found? Even my mechanic thought it was a crack, but when we removed the watts from the car, we could see it was really only a deep gash in the arm, it doesn't go all the way through. It isn't broken. So -- I've still got a functional watts link it looks like. Not sure what I'm gonna do now, technically I could put it back on the car, but so far I think I'm satisfied with things the way they are now. But if anyone is interested in it, send me a message and I'll send you pictures.

 

[LIGISTX]

I’m late to this, but I saw many people have failures with the links in single shear… so I fixed that.

There are definitely other issues with these watts’, I wasn’t even aware of this particular flavor of failure. I guess I need to check my rods for cracks.

 

[BackInBlack]

I wonder if anyone has tried to fit one of these onto a Whiteline

BMR Mustang Billet Aluminum Watts Link Pivot Upgrade; Black Anodized BMR-WL007 (05-14 Mustang Coupe) - Free Shipping

FREE SHIPPING! Improved Handling. The Panhard bar on your Mustang may be a good enough solution for everyday driving, but its construction means your axle is sh

www.americanmuscle.com

 

[LIGISTX]

I wonder if anyone has tried to fit one of these onto a Whiteline

BMR Mustang Billet Aluminum Watts Link Pivot Upgrade; Black Anodized BMR-WL007 (05-14 Mustang Coupe) - Free Shipping

FREE SHIPPING! Improved Handling. The Panhard bar on your Mustang may be a good enough solution for everyday driving, but its construction means your axle is sh

www.americanmuscle.com

I’d assume the dimensions are not the same. I took insulting from that and the cortex unit to make the mod to my Whiteline. But… based on how many Whiteline failed and the fact they don’t make them anymore……. And straight up ignore my emails and messages inquiring about anything to do with the watts, I think Whiteline has entirely washed their hands of them.

 

[BackInBlack]

Whiteline Watts Link vs OEM Panhard Bar

Swap complete. I'm now on a fully stock suspension setup on my BOSS 302. Just thought I'd do a review for anyone interested. I took the car for a few hard drives and took as many high speed turns as I could to try to recognize differences. My car was built using parts from a wrecked BOSS 302 that came with a Whiteline watts link on it so this is the first time I've experienced the full BOSS OEM configuration on this car.

1. Less clunking noise. I knew the watts was making some noise, apparently it was less than I thought because there's still a little noise back there but it is less than before. (I drive with my rear seats permanently folded down so I do get some extra noise from that.)
2. I'm pretty sure this is to be expected, but the rear of the car seems to sit slightly lower now. I can tell this from crawling under the car (on the ground/not jacked up) before vs after. I can't go as far under the car now as before. I would guess that this also means that my roll center is slightly lower? Which I think would be an expected change between the panhard bar vs the watts link. FYI, the WL watts was set using the lower position.
3. Smooth driving. The car drives slightly smoother now on straights, there is slightly less NVH, including (unexpectedly) a little less driveline vibration. I have a dash mount for my cell phone and usually it'll vibrate a little if I go above 85mph in 5th gear. Not a big deal, but I noticed that it doesn't do this anymore. The center console vibration also seems to be slightly lessened. I'm thinking maybe this is because the pinion angle is now spot-on OEM? On straights, the car feels more planted ... I'd guess due to the roll center change...
4. As one would expect, when taking a hard turn at high speed, the car seems a little less solid. It does seem to move a bit more. In response to this, I increased the rebound setting on the OEM BOSS rear shocks to 3 (I was previously using 3 on the front and 2 on the rear).

Let me know what ya'll think.

I should note that I don't think my watts link was properly maintained/adjusted. TBH I think it needs a good cleaning/greasing and I think the arms were extended a bit too much. When I was trying to adjust it before, while I think I had the arms evenly placed, the propeller wouldn't articulate as I expected it to. Now that it is off the car, I would say the bushings could use some grease. It was basically swapped from the salvage donor car as-is and then gradually adjusted afterwards.

BTW, that crack in the watts link arm that I found? Even my mechanic thought it was a crack, but when we removed the watts from the car, we could see it was really only a deep gash in the arm, it doesn't go all the way through. It isn't broken. So -- I've still got a functional watts link it looks like. Not sure what I'm gonna do now, technically I could put it back on the car, but so far I think I'm satisfied with things the way they are now. But if anyone is interested in it, send me a message and I'll send you pictures.

I should update this...
1. SLIGHTLY less clunk. I think my shocks need to be replaced...
2. Car does appear to sit lower in the rear -- however -- I think roll center is now HIGHER. A good way to describe it is that the rear end felt like I swapped in a V6 (22mm) rear sway bar (currently running a 24mm GT bar -- I tried the V6 bar previously). This is the main noticeable change.
3. This one I got right. Car feels a bit smoother.
4. This one is right, but it isn't very noticeable and this circumstance doesn't happen often.

For now I'm planning on disassembling, cleaning, re-greasing and then reassembling the watts link. Maybe I'll give it another try one day.

 

[stevbd]

I should update this...
1. SLIGHTLY less clunk. I think my shocks need to be replaced...
2. Car does appear to sit lower in the rear -- however -- I think roll center is now HIGHER. A good way to describe it is that the rear end felt like I swapped in a V6 (22mm) rear sway bar (currently running a 24mm GT bar -- I tried the V6 bar previously). This is the main noticeable change.
3. This one I got right. Car feels a bit smoother.
4. This one is right, but it isn't very noticeable and this circumstance doesn't happen often.

For now I'm planning on disassembling, cleaning, re-greasing and then reassembling the watts link. Maybe I'll give it another try one day.

Watts link vs. PHB shouldn't affect ride height, unless maybe your WL somehow was binding up and preventing full suspension movement? I'm not quite sure if or how that could happen. The roll center with a WL is the pivot point of the propellor, while the roll center for a PHB is where it intersects the center of the rear diff. Lower roll center is similar to a smaller rear sway bar.

 

[BackInBlack]

Watts link vs. PHB shouldn't affect ride height, unless maybe your WL somehow was binding up and preventing full suspension movement? I'm not quite sure if or how that could happen. The roll center with a WL is the pivot point of the propellor, while the roll center for a PHB is where it intersects the center of the rear diff. Lower roll center is similar to a smaller rear sway bar.

Ahhh --- so I was right the first time then. Thanks. I'm still learning this stuff.

I think it was binding. I believe the arms were set too long... They're crusty and hard as hell to adjust so I think they needed to come off the car anyway. At least for some maintenance. One of the reasons I started working on it in the first place was that I couldn't see any propeller movement at all. I realize it doesn't move much but even putting it on a 2 post lift with the tires at full droop I didn't see it move a hair.

 

[BackInBlack]

FYI guys, I don't think the crack is the result of normal wear and tear (although I don't know for sure, this being a junkyard part). When we assembled the car, we put the watts on with everything else and originally left it the way it was configured on the donor car. At first it was kinda clunky and bouncy. I think the arms were set too short. Took it back to mechanic and gave him proper specs for adjustment. I was there while he did it, and he said the thing wouldn't move at all. He asked for permission to use this giant wrench to torque it free, and I told him to go ahead. This worked -- but I think we adjusted the arms too long -- although the car did feel much better than with arms too short. My guess would be that we cracked the bar while we were torqueing it. I think we did it.

But ya know, if you can't adjust the thing it isn't very useful anyway so... We'll see how it works once I clean it up and reassemble it. It could be its just too crusty and used up.

 

[xr7]

I’m late to this, but I saw many people have failures with the links in single shear… so I fixed that.

There are definitely other issues with these watts’, I wasn’t even aware of this particular flavor of failure. I guess I need to check my rods for cracks.

Very good solution. Any extra pieces?
The way the pins are attached to the pivot is what failed on mine. Almost no weld because they ground the welds flush to the backside of the pivot. No taper for more penetration. The pins are drilled and tapped all the way thru leaving not a lot of material either.

 

[LIGISTX]

Very good solution. Any extra pieces?
The way the pins are attached to the pivot is what failed on mine. Almost no weld because they ground the welds flush to the backside of the pivot. No taper for more penetration. The pins are drilled and tapped all the way thru leaving not a lot of material either.

Yea, it’s a pretty shiznit design.

I do actually have 2 more of the plates I made. I made 3, all with every so slightly different dimensions since I knew the Whiteline propeller wasn’t perfectly spaced and square (it wasn’t, but it was close-ish). So do have 2 extra plates, but they may not be a perfect fit. And you’d have to source and press on your own “extended center shaft”. I don’t have any extra of those. But I do have CAD drawings of them I could send and you could have it made.

At that point tho, it’s probably worth just getting a different watts link. Spending actual money on the Whiteline isn’t worth it, I just didn’t since I have access to relatively cheap machining and it was something “fun” to do. Cost me like 50 bucks all in.

 

[LIGISTX]

70% of why I did it was just because it was a fun project, and I wanted to see if I was still at all a “real” engineer, lol. I have been so far removed from engineering, kinda just wanted to have something I designed actually put to use on the car.