Why are automatics so popular these days?

[Bigdipper01]

One thing i could never understand is why so many people go with automatics. In regard to drag racing, it kind of defeats the purpose..IMHO.

I have seen people arguing the fact they are more consistant or they are faster than than manual (stock/factory) in some cases. That may be true, but it has little if any to do with the driver. I am talking street cars, not serious bracket racers running ridiculously low times. I just dont see the point of there is no challenge or bragging rights.

Think about it...(hypothetical) say you have a friendly rivalry with a neighbor. He is always talking about how great of a driver he is. We decide to buy cars and racing as a hobby. I show up at the track with a new mustang mt, and he pulls in with a new mustang with an automatic. For the sake of my point lets just say the factory auto cars are a couple tenths faster than the manuals.

It would be laughable if he was excited or proud that he beat me in a drag race. I know i am going to hear people counter with frivolous examples of how there is still skill involved driving an auto etc...the problem is that those little things are so minor that any moderately decent driver can eventually figure out how to mash the throttle and keep it between the lines. I could most likely put my nephew that weighs 120 lbs in your car and he will post a faster time.....

my whole point is where is the competition in that? Its ridiculous to see these people posting smart alec comments about how there auto car has a lower e.t. maybe so, but i have no idea why they are acting like they are Steve Mcqueen

 

[Duane Black]

*cries in auto*

In terms of drag racing, if the cars have enough power to break traction, its still an issue of driver.

Drag racing to me was always about the car. The driver can have good reaction timrs and if its got a lot of power, 60 foot times are determined there to an extent, but, the big factor has always been the car, so why the complaint?

If your comparison is drag strips, i think you're still missing the true measure of a driver, autocross or track....



But to answer your question, they've become much more reliable over the years, much more efficient in terms of fuel and power numbers vs manuals, plus, so many drivers now cant drive manuals anyway....

An automatic transmission can last as long as tge car in some modern examples, same cant be said about a clutch just yet.... as that's driver dependent.

I do love tracking my auto with select shift

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Unfortunately Drag Racing with an automatic goes back to the 60s, not really a current situation, because even back then they proved faster than a human with a 3 speed or a 4 speed in their hand.

Now saying that , the bigger issue to say is how few people can even drive a manual. It has been funny, for well over a decade , that in my former place of employment that we only had a few employees who could drive a manual equipped vehicles into the Wash/Detail Bay. Yet, saying all this there are still quite a few of us that enjoy the tactile feel, challenge, and yes enjoyment of rowing the gears, heel and toe downshifting , etc.--------we are using all of our appendages, ha.

Get out on a road course or an autocross and you will see a plethora of Stick Shift Sickos, though as Duane suggested many folks are going with an auto, PDK, Dual Clutch, system and more and more will likely drift that way in the coming years.

Save the Manuals can be seen on many cars at track events, you my friend are part of a slowly dying breed, and welcome to TMO my shifty brethren, ha!

 

[Tonymustang302]

My 17 builder strongly advised going to a built 6r80 auto over a stick....... more control having 2 hands on the wheel with paddles than one....plus if you want to be consistent u have to have a auto

 

[blacksheep-1]

oh, contrare..Bill Pemberton, they did not prove to be faster than sticks. If you look up all the AHRA, NHRA and IHRA national records in stock and super stock classes very few had automatics that would out run a stick, once trans brakes, convertors, and reprogramming was introduced they FINALLY started to run as fast as a manual, but at about 5 times the cost

1/4 MILE RECORDS - Super Stock Eliminator

www.nhra.com

1/4 MILE RECORDS - Stock Eliminator

www.nhra.com

 

[blacksheep-1]

Besides, who doesn't like this?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I stand corrected and it was too broad a statement on my part. I was referring, primarily, to stock set-ups in each case and should have been more exact since you are completely correct BS-1. Nice video and you know I am an advocate for manuals. Very difficult to convince a younger generation who can not drive a manually equipped car . Younger Salesmen repeat over and over to us older Statesmen ( referring to my 30+ years in Automotive Sales ) that a DCL , PDK, 10 Speed Auto, etc. will outrun a manual, or don't we read? Nice to see so many younger Mustang owners who prefer a manual , as it makes one believe the trend will continue farther into the future than once surmised.

 

[TymeSlayer]

Any advantage these days, no matter how miniscule, is an advantage just the same. Who here doesn't think removing a tic-tac from your car doesn't make you faster?

For me, it's give me a stick over a paddle any day.

 

[flyhalf]

I probably had a different path of many here.
Coming from italy we don't have auto.
It Is all manual. So i drove 15 years manuals before moving here to the U.S. 5years ago.
And I'm now tracking a 10speed
Roadcourse only.
There are pros and cons for both.

I paddle shifting anyway cause computer acts stupid many time.
Pro
Upshifting is the fastest and better advantage. I can hold on the straight the 350R with 60hp more and lighter just because the faster upshifting. This is big.

I use 2 feet to brake and throttle. That is another great advantage.

Cons
Downshifting is ...awful.not precise. Not fast. For torque converter cars.
engine braking is zero. So extra work for the brakes.
Overheating. Heat managment is ..challenging. That is a big limitation.
Durability. As consequence also of overheating those trans tend to break often. The fluid is really ultra low viscosity. And with hugh temps. This fluid..suffers.

I'm one of those looking for performance.
And I believe there is a reason why 99% of the racing series use paddles.
That being said ..
Would I buy a toruqe converter over a DCT? absolutely not.
But for the price/performance compromise they offer IF YOU CAN KEEP IT COOL performance are better than manual.
Alex

 

[xr7]

I all for the manual, but a lot probably has to due with what you know, muscle memory? Brain training? I had a 2008 VW GTI with the DSG trans, loved driving the car but mostly let the trans run itself. I could never get the hang of using the paddle shifters when running thru a tight Xcross course, where the H*** is the paddle I need to grab another gear with 3/4 turns in the wheel and my hands are not where they are supposed to be. On the flip side trying to explain the gear shift pattern of my Boss to my grandson, I see that stuff without even thinking.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I stand corrected and it was too broad a statement on my part. I was referring, primarily, to stock set-ups in each case and should have been more exact since you are completely correct BS-1. Nice video and you know I am an advocate for manuals. Very difficult to convince a younger generation who can not drive a manually equipped car . Younger Salesmen repeat over and over to us older Statesmen ( referring to my 30+ years in Automotive Sales ) that a DCL , PDK, 10 Speed Auto, etc. will outrun a manual, or don't we read? Nice to see so many younger Mustang owners who prefer a manual , as it makes one believe the trend will continue farther into the future than once surmised.

rarely are you incorrect, but I was at ground zero for the development of the 747 Chrysler trans. Many people don't remember but GM, Ford and Chrysler all had aerospace divisions that helped put us on the moon. The Mopar guys had a car they called "the whale" it was a pure white, fully instrumented and was always accompanied by a plain jane white Dodge van that was full of electronics and telemetry. It was Paul and Dom forte who figured it out at Gainesville dragstrip.

 

[Norm Peterson]

One thing i could never understand is why so many people go with automatics. In regard to drag racing, it kind of defeats the purpose..IMHO.

In drag racing, the only purpose that really matters is getting to the finish line first. If you're at all dedicated to winning, the smart move is to choose the best equipment for that job. Part of that would be choices made to minimize the effects of driver error/inconsistency.

I have seen people arguing the fact they are more consistant or they are faster than than manual (stock/factory) in some cases. That may be true, but it has little if any to do with the driver. I am talking street cars, not serious bracket racers running ridiculously low times. I just dont see the point of there is no challenge or bragging rights.

On the street it's mostly about basking in the reflected glory of what actual drag races and individual timed runs have been able to demonstrate. The individual's own racing abilities are apt to be of less importance.

Trust me, the writing was already on the wall as far as automatics ultimately dominating at drag racing at least as far back as the latter half of the 1960's. But you had to put any preference for doing all of your own shifting aside and look at the automatic for the advantages that it potentially had. I say 'potentially' mainly because at that time actual AT development hadn't exactly caught up.

Think about it...(hypothetical) say you have a friendly rivalry with a neighbor. He is always talking about how great of a driver he is. We decide to buy cars and racing as a hobby. I show up at the track with a new mustang mt, and he pulls in with a new mustang with an automatic. For the sake of my point lets just say the factory auto cars are a couple tenths faster than the manuals.

It would be laughable if he was excited or proud that he beat me in a drag race. I know i am going to hear people counter with frivolous examples of how there is still skill involved driving an auto etc...the problem is that those little things are so minor that any moderately decent driver can eventually figure out how to mash the throttle and keep it between the lines. I could most likely put my nephew that weighs 120 lbs in your car and he will post a faster time.....

Be a little careful about hand-waving away the matter of skill.

The first thing that comes to mind is that the driver still has to work within the available traction at the drive tires. This is obviously a trickier task when the car is more powerful. It would be fair to say that keeping your drive tires operating at their optimum slip% at the strip is no less demanding than keeping road-race tires operating at their optimum slip angle at Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca. Using all that they can give you, without stepping past their peaks and putting yourself on the back side of the tire grip curve. We're talking about 'wins' being by as little as 0.001 second, so you can't afford to be too sloppy or leave too much on the table out of caution.

my whole point is where is the competition in that? Its ridiculous to see these people posting smart alec comments about how there auto car has a lower e.t. maybe so, but i have no idea why they are acting like they are Steve Mcqueen

To a majority of car enthusiasts, the bragging rights are in the car's straight line acceleration potential. Even if they can't personally achieve the same numbers themselves.


Norm

 

[carver]

Why are automatics so popular these days?
I'm not sure that they are popular , it's the only choice available more and more by all manufacturers these days....sadly.
I'm guessing 90% of new drivers would not even know where to start if they saw three pedals on the floor. ....sadly

 

[Norm Peterson]

Why are automatics so popular these days?
I'm not sure that they are popular , it's the only choice available more and more by all manufacturers these days....sadly.

At this point and for most people, automatic transmissions have become the expected fitment as opposed to mere popular choice. We could legitimately say "standard transmission" today and mean automatic.

As to popularity, I think that's what got us here. Most people prefer to have their day-to-day tasks as physically easy and mentally unchallenging as possible, which I would consider as being "passive popularity". Not that the AT need be more appealing in and of itself, just that it involve less work.

Once automatics started showing parity in terms of performance potential, that would have started what I'll call "active popularity", where the AT is intentionally selected either for performance advantage or at least parity with less work required of them.

I'm guessing 90% of new drivers would not even know where to start if they saw three pedals on the floor. ....sadly

Probably true. Though I think we have to shoulder at least a little of the blame for that.

Part of the reason many/most new drivers may not even be thinking in terms of having a transmission choice comes from their life to date not including much exposure to cars that have a MT. Assuming that they're paying much attention, driving is . . . get into your car, buckle up, start it, and wiggle some lever just once to go forward and never touch it again until you get to where you were going. Your left foot/leg need never move the whole time.

From what I've seen, this has been creeping up on us since the 1960's, with each new generation of drivers being progressively less likely to have any exposure to MT cars being just a different way some cars work. When I started driving, we still had a MT car in the driveway. That car was gone before my younger sister and brother started driving, eventually being replaced with what had previously been Dad's daily-driver. As a result neither of them really got enough exposure to riding in a MT car - near enough to their own licensing age - to develop enough interest in learning how. Their kids, even less exposure.

My own two kids had no choice but to learn how to drive stick, if they expected to get in any practice driving on their permit or drive any of our cars after becoming licensed drivers. And enough influence managed to rub off on our oldest granddaughter that two of the three cars she's owned have been MT.


Norm

 

[Fat Boss]

Why are automatics so popular these days?
I'm not sure that they are popular , it's the only choice available more and more by all manufacturers these days....sadly.
I'm guessing 90% of new drivers would not even know where to start if they saw three pedals on the floor. ....sadly

My dad's Model T has three pedals. Do you know how to drive one? (Hint: one of the pedals is Reverse)

 

[blacksheep-1]

My dad's Model T has three pedals. Do you know how to drive one? (Hint: one of the pedals is Reverse)

more akin to a garden tractor than a vehicle, as I recall the carb was gravity fed, so if you had a steep hill you had to back up them to keep the fuel flowing

 

[Fat Boss]

more akin to a garden tractor than a vehicle, as I recall the carb was gravity fed, so if you had a steep hill you had to back up them to keep the fuel flowing

True. Also no water pump, just good old thermosyphon. Once in a while it starts without cranking, just flip the ignition switch on and if it's at the right position it'll fire right up. Modern engines can only dream of such things.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Ahh.. this is very relevent too me now. Promised my girls that I would never buy an automatic for them and they would have to learn to drive manuals.... Which they both do quite well though they still don not have permits. Now the oldest is two years away from graduating in Criminolgy and wants to join the Vancouver BC police. She wants an auto car as she has never driven one before.... So instead of getting them an old bmw or Golf GTI.... I have to look at Crown Vics!!!

If it was not for the American Muscle cars... I think manuals would be dead already. Long live the manual!!

 

[carver]

Ahh.. this is very relevent too me now. Promised my girls that I would never buy an automatic for them and they would have to learn to drive manuals.... Which they both do quite well though they still don not have permits. Now the oldest is two years away from graduating in Criminolgy and wants to join the Vancouver BC police. She wants an auto car as she has never driven one before.... So instead of getting them an old bmw or Golf GTI.... I have to look at Crown Vics!!!

If it was not for the American Muscle cars... I think manuals would be dead already. Long live the manual!!

I couldn't stop laughing , thinking about this video when you mentioned Canada , Police and Crown Vics..... and I wish your daughter all the best!

 

[xr7]

more akin to a garden tractor than a vehicle, as I recall the carb was gravity fed, so if you had a steep hill you had to back up them to keep the fuel flowing

That may explain a story my dad told me. There was a very steep road that was by their farm and he told us how the old Model T's had to back up the hill. He thought the T had lower gearing in reverse but maybe it was the fuel.
As to automatics I had lots of manuals when I was younger but did like the 78 Fairmont Futura with the auto trans and 302. I drove in rush hour traffic every day, stop and go, I always referred to it as rowing to work with that four on the floor and that Long pressure plate. With the Fairmont that rowing became a thing of the past. I hated row boats too, much prefer a canoe.