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Will the Mustang become an electric-only model?

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I'm glad I'm out of the firefighter biz, when I left the hybrids were starting to get more plentiful, when firefighters look at cars it's more like..."what hazards do I need to overcome to either extinguish a fire, or to release trapped victims".
Hybrids are rolling haz mat incidents, 300 volt wiring you have to cut around, if the battery container is compromised the contents will react on the aluminum frame of the car.. etc etc. multiple and sometimes redundant electrical systems that can activate 1 or more of the (as many as 8) air bags that didn't trigger in the wreck... this stuff massively influences extrication times.
and now we get hydrogen cells,.. what could possibly go wrong?

rdeWqGel.jpg
 

Bill Pemberton

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You are so right Blacksheep , we better use Lowdrogen! Good notes as I often wondered about the issues with Hybrids since I remember all the concerns with F1 when they first started. You have us wondering if the inherent issues are still there?
 
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You are so right Blacksheep , we better use Lowdrogen! Good notes as I often wondered about the issues with Hybrids since I remember all the concerns with F1 when they first started. You have us wondering if the inherent issues are still there?


and the racing stuff is actually easier because the cars are built to a single standard, in the automotive world, it's the wild west, what would be really, really cool would be to have a high voltage disconnect that shuts down all of the car's emergency (air bag) and electrical system similar to competition cars. Of course it would have to be under the hood or something that would require access, or thugites would be disabling people's cars then robbing them, but you get the idea.

there are so many hazards on a simple car fire..

E4 Car fire - hood cylinder explodes - YouTube

and I have no idea why this officer wasn't geared out, that wouldn't fly at my FD, but at least his crew was,

Firefighters blown up when RAV4 gas tank explodes @ 4:17!!! - YouTube
 
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Good point about fire hazard Blacksheep.

Several groups that run HPDE at the local track, MSR Houston, have banned tesla's from participating because of the fire risk.

From what I understand the batteries take a special type of extinguisher to put out and can burn for 4+ hours at very high temp.

As far as the mustang going electric, I love what's possible with new tech. However I will be purchasing my mustangs from the used market for the foreseeable future since I won't spend anything more than 15k on a car.
 

Bill Pemberton

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In the words of the Commodores -------" Ow, she's a brick house, She's mighty mighty letting it all hang out! "

So the new lyrics are , " She's a brick house, She's naughty , naughty and just sits around the house!"
 
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I think it's inevitable... Not what I want by a long shot but: If the current administration has it their way and get re-elected: Sooner than later trying to copy cat the British on the 2030 date. I think they called the Mach-E a "Mustang" to grease the skids and get the buying public used to the idea. It's also part of the reason I sprang for a new GT350. Get 'em while you still can.
 

JDee

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halfway between Mosport and Shannonville

Bill Pemberton

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Discourse is natural, healthy and needed for understanding, but I do hope we can evolve away from the word " Blame " as I think many do view the World in a roil of dramatic technical change and questioning should be rationally examined. Many seem to blame politicians for what is occurring and yet we as a Nation are way behind the rest of the World in EVs , Solar, Wind, etc. and it could be viewed as a case of us just catching up. Sure we have Musk and Tesla, and I find the humor in friends who scream about the change in power , electrification ,etc. but have large chunks of Tesla stock. Life often is humorous and one only has to go back to folks screaming about Nuclear Power , who now are thinking it is a very viable source over coal, etc. - hard to argue it as a viable power source again.

I think the Forum we have here is a positive way to vent our frustrations, since we all have them regardless of all our views, because there are things brought up that both help us understand , educate, enlighten or even disturb us. One can see the advantage of an EV vehicle when fuel prices are off scale , but we can wonder about the problems with fire containment as Blacksheep brought up. One can be philosophical and view the past and how industry evolved and feel we are in a very new age right now. Are we looking at a balance that may actually cause us to become even more stable as a Country with less dependence on any one fuel source. I , personally, can not see a complete infrastructure overall in the next 15-20 years, and in fact find it unlikely in even 50 years. Taking just vehicles as a singular movement , hybrids, full EVs, Hydrogen based vehicles, Nat. Gas vehicles, and petroleum based will be produced for many years to come, and we won't be dependent on any one source --- that is a safety valve from Worldwide strife or turmoil one might believe.

I know my 105 Decibel machine may be more rare in the coming years, or whatever I own ( pretty sure it will be loud as my Viper is also ) , but I have a strange faith in the ingenuity of American ingenuity and see more changes coming with internal combustion engines . Some doomsayers wrote it off years and years ago and most of us drive performance monsters that get 20-25 mpg on the highway. When things like Teslas burning to the ground ( recent news and an example of fire issues from Blacksheep ) happen we as a people get skeptical and purchases slow down. Now I do think the main issues will be solved in the coming years, but so many situations like this will probably occur with technical change, that progress is always slowed if history is to be believed. Think of advances needed in braking for horseless carriages to catch on more , as running into things was a severe problem initially. Or, even better, think of changes in tires to smooth our the ride and eventually become such an important part in traversing all kinds of early roads, paths or open land.

Where will we be in 20 years, one can only imagine, but after looking back that many years I know I never imagined 700+ vehicles I could buy which passed EPA requirements for clean air. Now we have a 1000HP EV SUV , and that is hard for me not to be fairly excited about. Imagine the future, remember the past , and what happens next will likely be a bit of both in reality.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
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Agree to a point. The "Solutions" we see presented regarding EV's and infrastructure are partial solutions, at best. The Political machines in this country, and there are several, have forgotten compromise. Its my way or the highway......or not. Discussion is dead. The requirement by society to have an idea accepted by many and not just a simple majority is dead. That is what worries me the most. Are we becoming Europe? Are we embracing their negative ways. Negative in that once a party is in power they change everything because that have that one vote more than the other side of the aisle. Their ideas become less popular when the bills come in, the shine wears off the penny or another genius has a great idea (Sarcasm). Will we then dump the party in charge and swing drastically away from the last "Pet Project"? At What Cost??
If we simply "Slow the roll" and allow ideas to progress and achieve overwhelming support before inflicting them on the masses, we would be better served.
The arrogance in the 50.0001% "Majority" is my biggest concern.
 
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I also agree with both @TMSBOSS and @Bill Pemberton to a point. There's no single do it all solution. Until the next big thing happens in battery / electricity storage tech it's going to be tough row to hoe on the EV front. After all the 'New Age" Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron batteries currently in use were invented a few decades ago and have only made incremental improvements at this point.

About North America in being in the "Catch-up" mode on wind and solar, I disagree. Solar cells were made a reality at Bell Labs in New Jersey in 1954 and the first Wind Generator in Cleveland Ohio in 1888. The German "Advances" on wind power were / are a failure and little more than a political stunt as described by @TMSBOSS. The Germans pay 3 X what I pay for electricity (0.28 - 0.30 Euro/kwh to my $0.12/kwh) because the wind turbines are still (20+ years later) impractical and feathered (Stopped) the majority of the time adding zero kwh / meanwhile the German electric commission still burns coal to actually power the grid and the poor German folks foot the bill for both coal and wind infrastructure costs and maintenance. Similar stories happen with solar.

So why are we "behind"? Because up to this point: Free enterprise and common sense have dictated that while some research is good, massive deployment is not economically / technologically feasible. I.E: we are actually smarter and let the other guys waste their time and resources. Also, we can always use their tech if / when they figure it out.

But (There's always a big butt... :) ) If the socialists have it their way in the US with the Green New deal and other such hair brained ideas, shoving EV's / Solar / Wind and whatever else down the public's throat and at our (great) expense is a reality. Just look at Germany on wind power and the UK on EV's for 2030...
 

Bill Pemberton

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Good discussion and the our way or the highway concept is decades old. The fear TMS has that this continues is an actual one that has folks realizing we have to work on compromise, because we do have to in everyday life. Some good comments by Torque , but though we have had solar panels and batteries for over a century , the state of the art was not at the technical advantage is is today. Germany may have issues , but the Netherlands has positive gains with Wind Power, so we will all see plusses and minuses throughout the World.

Free Enterprise and common sense is often viewed as taking the easy road, and I have to suggest that the true Free Enterprise beauty of the US is when things change we have the ingenuity to figure a better way. The common sense issue can be questionable , because there is a point where making the most profit overweighs making needed advancement. We are behind, but China is who were should work to match pace , Europe is not our main competitor and some advances are forced by outside forces . I see Capitalism as the Petri dish for us to grow more , because we are competitors for staying at the top ( and like sports it is hard to get there and stay). Sometimes the falls help things grow stronger and we have to look at what is happening on the Planet and adjust to help us with more growth -- many in new areas.

With the Pandemic Worldwide, Americans still have the lowest unemployment of any major Industrialized Nation , though we are always way down on happiness compared to others. We seem to have to get down before we pick ourselves up and accept tons of challenges.

Travel causes a lot of questions about Climate Concerns and it is hard to think they are " hair brained " ideas as seeing glaciers disappear you walked on as a child is a dramatic realization that things are happening and we have to be aware. Growing up when one saw inversions in LA as a common daily problem , we have to remind ourselves we have been in similar situations just a half century back. Air in LA is better and advances in auto emissions was a key point, and today we have different concerns to ask ourselves what is happening. To many we see it as history repeating itself , humans do not do anything until it gets bad enough to attack. Traveling through Europe during the 60s we rarely could drink the water, because rivers were so polluted and now that is almost completely clear. Weird , having friends/customers all over the World , listening to their concerns/problems with weather changes it is hard for me to not be aware we have problems with weather and pollution. Saying that, I just see it as an impetus for us to get more ingenious with changes, some we will agree with , others we will not. The situation is a belief that change is the engine that forces humans to vault ahead, find new solutions, grow and prosper and I am still naive enough to feel the US is the World's Monarch of innovation! We have to remember the " Dollar " is the World Currency, and some economists believe that is a unifying source that the USA must realize it must never lose.

Thanks for your thoughts Torque and TMS.
 
73
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@Bill Pemberton Good points. I'm not disputing that the climate is changing. The earth has been warming since the Ice age... Catalytic converters were invented / implemented here first and compared to Europe's "Better" Diesel solution, (also a hard push from socialist governments) far better for the environment. I worked in Brussels for a few months in the 90's and their priceless marble architecture was in need of major cleanup and restoration because of the the damages caused by the soot coming off the diesel powered vehicles.

If I walked around Brussels for a few hours I would literally blow black stuff out of my nose when taking a shower that night. No lie. Imagine the long term effects on people and the rest of the environment. They finally got a clue and implemented catalytic converters 'En masse" in the late 90's and better diesel emissions controls later.

So, efforts to clean-up the environment, judiciously implemented are a good thing.

However, if you look at the Green New Deal in details, it's a power grab with questionable actual improvements, just like the German wind mills. Ideas like completely retrofitting all commercial buildings with still unproven and expensive "Green" tech is un-feasible, eliminating cows because of C02 farts is definitely hair brained, and shutting down air travel until electric airplanes are feasible is pretty nutty as well. These are just a few examples.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
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I live in the shadows of a wind farm, literally. My next door neighbor has a long term lease on the back portion of his lot for a wind generator. We are at the end of the "Wind Alley" which stretches from the Dakota's through the Midwest. Wind generators do work......when they work. When do they not work? On a calm wind day, obviously. During high wind days, not so obvious, safety concerns. During storm periods, also a period when solar is without its source of energy. The irony of sticking wind generators in areas which are carbon negative is lost on most.
As @TorqueAholic mentioned, renewable sources are renewable but Not Reliable. So we have to have redundant systems meaning thermal/coal, hydro, nuke as well as IC which can produce power, the current systems, simply because we can't depend on the weather.
 
When I start up that Boss n the garage, it still makes me smile...and I'll have it 10 yrs in Oct................................those wide open sides and GT500 muffs might help with that...............just a tad.........................
 

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