Lap Time Thread

[Boone]

we would just need to choose the verbiage carefully.

TMO Faithfull:
Does the verbiage I loosely propose work for us?

200TW and up (for the CAM and Optima crowd)
<200 TW (R compounds and most Sport Cups)
Slicks (Hoosiers, Pirelli DH, etc.)

I would think that our group knows, or quickly will come to know, these are the three main track tire categories, and I don't see this changing in the forseeable future. I confess that Goodyear does its best to screw this up with the Supercar 3 (220TW) and the Supercar 3R (100TW), and God bless Goodyear and their 1000 variations of Sport Cups. We should be able to overcome that by knowing what we bought when we paid $2000 to put tires on our car, or just reading the sidewall. We could refer to the "UTQG" official designation, but that would just confuse some folks.

Comments appreciated before we get too deep into this list.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I believe you are referring to Michelin and their Sport Cups, but you are so correct in their building a zillion versions with varying compounds. It makes one want to try other variations to see if one is a secret weapon, but at 2000-2400 I think I will just go get the Purple Passion from Indiana!

 

[Egparson202]

TMO Faithfull:
Does the verbiage I loosely propose work for us?

200TW and up (for the CAM and Optima crowd)
<200 TW (R compounds and most Sport Cups)
Slicks (Hoosiers, Pirelli DH, etc.)

I would think that our group knows, or quickly will come to know, these are the three main track tire categories, and I don't see this changing in the forseeable future. I confess that Goodyear does its best to screw this up with the Supercar 3 (220TW) and the Supercar 3R (100TW), and God bless Goodyear and their 1000 variations of Sport Cups. We should be able to overcome that by knowing what we bought when we paid $2000 to put tires on our car, or just reading the sidewall. We could refer to the "UTQG" official designation, but that would just confuse some folks.

Comments appreciated before we get too deep into this list.

Having run on tires from all three, these categories work for me. The represent different levels of performance and absolutely affect lap times substantially. (If they didn’t, why would the market support them, right?)

The only question I can think of is whether there may be something to learn from the rules and classifications of various popular series (e.g. NASA or SCCA TT).

 

[Boone]

The only question I can think of is whether there may be something to learn from the rules and classifications of various popular series (e.g. NASA or SCCA TT).

Anybody have input on this? I split street tires at 200TW due to my personal experience with Optima and CAM. It's our list, and the earlier we set up tire groupings, the better.

 

[Ludachris]

Anybody have input on this? I split street tires at 200TW due to my personal experience with Optima and CAM. It's our list, and the earlier we set up tire groupings, the better.

Hey Mr. Tire Guy (@blacksheep-1 ) - thoughts on this?

 

[SMGDHG]

Anybody have input on this? I split street tires at 200TW due to my personal experience with Optima and CAM. It's our list, and the earlier we set up tire groupings, the better.

This is a no brainer imo, and would be good to add to the lap time system.

There is little use in comparing a hoosier lap time to a 200tw lap time so it is nice to have the tire information included.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I think Boone's simple formula should work to a point:

Over 200 TWR
100 -200 TWR
0-100 TWR
Pure slicks like Michelin and Pirelli

You have some tires that do not fit well , like Toyo RR , which is a slick but is made as a Spec Tire and there are 200 TWR tires that are faster.

Good idea , but it will need to be fairly simple like Boone suggested or it gets out of hand.

 

[Egparson202]

I think Boone's simple formula should work to a point:

Over 200 TWR
100 -200 TWR
0-100 TWR
Pure slicks like Michelin and Pirelli

You have some tires that do not fit well , like Toyo RR , which is a slick but is made as a Spec Tire and there are 200 TWR tires that are faster.

Good idea , but it will need to be fairly simple like Boone suggested or it gets out of hand.

It seems like the main changes here would draw a distinction between true slicks, Hoosiers and other R comps. I’m good with drawing the line there too. I’ve adopted the practice of including the tires I set the time on in my post. (Not that fast, nothing to hide.). Good discussion starting here. Need a bit more input maybe before deciding. Hmmm… who else would have an opinion???

 

[SMGDHG]

I think Boone's simple formula should work to a point:

Over 200 TWR
100 -200 TWR
0-100 TWR
Pure slicks like Michelin and Pirelli

You have some tires that do not fit well , like Toyo RR , which is a slick but is made as a Spec Tire and there are 200 TWR tires that are faster.

Good idea , but it will need to be fairly simple like Boone suggested or it gets out of hand.

Yeah this is spot on IMO.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Hoosier slicks are one thing, right there with Michelin or Pirelli, but they are all three faster than DOT Hoosiers, so the separation needs to be there, imho.

 

[Egparson202]

Hoosier slicks are one thing, right there with Michelin or Pirelli, but they are all three faster than DOT Hoosiers, so the separation needs to be there, imho.

Bingo!

Clarifying question for the committee: The Goodyear SC3R is 100TW. Would it land in 100-200 or 0-100? Don’t want to put it up against Bill’s Purple Power, right?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Most groups put it in the 0-100 group and you bring up a good point, for this question not to come up it should be 101-199, the 200 up , etc.
Your question is good, and because of it most groups list the groups, but then they actually list the tires to relieve the confusion.
Some of the guys I know believe the 3Rs are close to the R7 ( not the A7 ) and they do belong in that area of 0-100. In fact, I believe NASA places them in the same category.

 

[Egparson202]

Most groups put it in the 0-100 group and you bring up a good point, for this question not to come up it should be 101-199, the 200 up , etc.
Your question is good, and because of it most groups list the groups, but then they actually list the tires to relieve the confusion.
Some of the guys I know believe the 3Rs are close to the R7 ( not the A7 ) and they do belong in that area of 0-100. In fact, I believe NASA places them in the same category.

Why don’t we just adopt a standard set by one of the other orgs? Do we think the standards are stable? NASA TT comes to mind. Categories that are stable with examples that evolve with the tire market.

 

[Middleton Motorsports]

Garmin Record at Blackhawk Farms
GT500 R7 305 square tuned by Middleton Motorsports 1:13.27

 

[stevbd]

I think one part of the old lap time thread that worked pretty well was that there was sort of an unspoken rule that people would include the make and size of tire they were using. Not always but usually. I think that is easier to follow than a 3-tier system where someone notes, for example, "100tw" but you have no idea what actual make or size tire that is referring to.

 

[Middleton Motorsports]

2:17.33 at road America
2020 GT500 A7 Hoosiers Middleton Motorsports MM900 package

 

[Bill Pemberton]

That is a seriously fast time at RA !

 

[Thatorangegt350]

Year/Make/Model/Trim: 2020 GT350
Track/Course: Road Atlanta
Best Lap Time: 1:39.959 (twice, to the thousandths!)
Tires (Size & Model): 325/30R19 Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar 3 square
Mods: suspension

My camera went pear-shaped late in the day, so I didn't get video of either session, so here's the TrackAddict shots:

View attachment 78290
View attachment 78291

I did, however, capture a low 1:40 earlier in the day chasing Everette!

Next event:

Year/Make/Model/Trim: 2020 GT350
Track/Course: Barber Motorsports Park
Best Lap Time: 1:40.259
Tires (Size & Model): 325/30R19 Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar 3 square
Mods: suspension

I didn't get the 1:3x that I was shooting for - hot weather, rain, and boiling my brake fluid (yike!) limited my laps.

I’m looking at running the same tire setup. What all did you have to do to get it to fit?

 

[Fair]

First Time Attack event in my 2015 Mustang on 200TW tires after sorting some new teething issues and adding aero.



Set FTD by a decent bit against cars on slicks and Hoosiers.
YouTube:

We have made several improvements since this 1:14.6 lap (the quickest I've driven anything here in 20 years), and I'm itching to go back and try again.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Won a National Championship there two decades ago but know the track well and a 1:14 is Warp 9 --- congrats!!!