theamsoilguy said:

There isn't much I can adjust for alignment in the back being a solid rear axle. Yes I am in contact with someone at kenny brown. They advised .25 toe out, max caster and 2.4 camber. Since I'm a rookie ( usually softer springs) AND out track is bumpy as he'll we decided to start soft. That's why I'm 650 for springs. So my alignment is that. But after cording a tire at 2.7 camber last year and what appears excessive wear at 2.1. I stsrted asking around. I won't get 2 weekends on a set of new tires if I stay the same. Driving style and alignment. So I'm going to try something. What kenny brown. Said as that I won't get much aero load on my track ( realistically all 3rd gear ) that I can go with toe closer to zero, but they suggested based on wear even less camber. The less camber I'm having a hard time accepting. I will bring my camber guage for next race ( different track though) and see how it goes.

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Are you sure you are not rubbing somewhere with the 9 degrees of caster maybe the inside tire is rubbing when turning ? What size slicks you are using ? On the photo your fronts looks really stretched so maybe they are just too small for the rim and since the inner tire is getting more load on straights maybe you are cording them. On 18x11 wheels you want 295 or 305 tires and not less than that. On my S550 I run 515 lbs front springs granted on 200TW tires and I usually get at least 250 km (155 miles) of track use before they are worn enough so they are slower. I run -3.0 camber and they wear very well.

bnight said:

Are you sure you are not rubbing somewhere with the 9 degrees of caster maybe the inside tire is rubbing when turning ? What size slicks you are using ? On the photo your fronts looks really stretched so maybe they are just too small for the rim and since the inner tire is getting more load on straights maybe you are cording them. On 18x11 wheels you want 295 or 305 tires and not less than that. On my S550 I run 515 lbs front springs granted on 200TW tires and I usually get at least 250 km (155 miles) of track use before they are worn enough so they are slower. I run -3.0 camber and they wear very well.

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Zestino slicks. According to zestino 11 inch rims for this tire. The tire size up they want 12. I can't run 12s without widening the fenders :

280/650r18

I think that since the kenny brown front cradle changes the geometry of the car that they recommend less camber that a stock car fyi..regardless. I am getting too much wear and am searching for opinions/advice.

theamsoilguy said:

There isn't much I can adjust for alignment in the back being a solid rear axle. Yes I am in contact with someone at kenny brown. They advised .25 toe out, max caster and 2.4 camber. Since I'm a rookie ( usually softer springs) AND out track is bumpy as he'll we decided to start soft. That's why I'm 650 for springs. So my alignment is that. But after cording a tire at 2.7 camber last year and what appears excessive wear at 2.1. I stsrted asking around. I won't get 2 weekends on a set of new tires if I stay the same. Driving style and alignment. So I'm going to try something. What kenny brown. Said as that I won't get much aero load on my track ( realistically all 3rd gear ) that I can go with toe closer to zero, but they suggested based on wear even less camber. The less camber I'm having a hard time accepting. I will bring my camber guage for next race ( different track though) and see how it goes.

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You could have a decent race shop do a bumpsteer curve on that setup as not knowing what the KB camber gain is through travel may indicate less static camber is needed. Also the actual bumpsteer with the current/past setups may be inducing negative toe gain as well. I don't have anything against KB stuff or for it, but there is not "book" of real race information as there in from guys like @blacksheep-1 , Dean Martin/KohR Motorsports, Andrew Aquilante, Capaldi racing and ll the other teams, drivers and crew who competed in Grand Am, Pirelli Challenge and IMSA GS with these chassis. Ask KB for the camber and bump curves for the chassis parts. Toe in the rear can be adjusted slightly with adjustable lower control arms. So if you are out on one side and in on the other, slight adjustments fore/aft can help zero out both sides. Although depending on the track some bias may be desired. That is a whole 'nother Rabbit Hole.

Steve, thank you for posting what was going through my head the whole time I was reading this thread. KB changed geometry and bumpsteer... X2.

Is it still a strut car? That makes a huge difference.

TeeLew said:

Is it still a strut car? That makes a huge difference.

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Yes strut.
I have video of the front tire from my splitter if that's of any value. I wanted to see how from the curbs I run, etc. The camber looked good to me and there isn't any sidewall flex. But I really don't have experience with what to look for of such a camera angle. I just finished downloading video. Have in car. On the deck lid, on the splitter.

theamsoilguy said:

Yes strut.
I have video of the front tire from my splitter if that's of any value. I wanted to see how from the curbs I run, etc. The camber looked good to me and there isn't any sidewall flex. But I really don't have experience with what to look for of such a camera angle.

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OK, so they'll be able to play with roll-center height and some offsets, but there's no way to get much camber gain with a strut. If you've got a lot of caster, then this will add camber to the outside tire as you turn the wheel.

I don't run an S197 car, so I don't have a setup that I can recommend.

theamsoilguy said:

Yes strut.
I have video of the front tire from my splitter if that's of any value. I wanted to see how from the curbs I run, etc. The camber looked good to me and there isn't any sidewall flex. But I really don't have experience with what to look for of such a camera angle. I just finished downloading video. Have in car. On the deck lid, on the splitter.

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If the tire is touching anything, you'll see it by wear on the bodywork and a gob of finely shaved rubber.

theamsoilguy said:

Zestino slicks. According to zestino 11 inch rims for this tire. The tire size up they want 12. I can't run 12s without widening the fenders :

280/650r18

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300/650r18 even though it says standard rim 12J it should fit on 11J rims and should be better than what you currently run. Will also help with tire wear as you will be running wider tire. But have in mind that Zestino are budget tires for a reason they are in essence refurbished tires so the tire life is limited because of that. Early in my track days I was running the Zestino Semi-Slicks and while they were a great budget option they were not that fast and were wearing a lot.

Thanks for the advice. to fit those I would need camber bolts in strut to have the rubber clear the coils and I would need a bigger spacer in the rear for the same reason. The kenny brown coilovers i bought are .25 inch larger diameter than their 'good' stuff. If I would have known how tight my clearances are I would have bought the other coilovers. Or thought harder about widening the fenders before paint and running 12 inch tires. I will atttach video of the tire working. Please comment on if this does looked streched for a race tire. I went by the manufactures of the tire to pick the tire size for the rim. I have enought tires for this season so I wont be changing anytime soon though.

theamsoilguy said:

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looks pretty normal to me, if you ever run homestead, you'll see that wheel bead almost pulling out of the tire in the banking, This is always the issue that I deal with, I need super low psi when cold (sometimes 14.5 psi) in order to not over shoot my hot targets, but I have to find a way to keep the tire on the bead on the out laps. you can tell the driver not to hit the curbs, but when they're trying to make up time, they rarely listen. Then of course, the tire MFG always blames tire issues on " low pressure on out lap, hit a curb" they might as well stamp that on the tire with\ the rest of the warning labels we ignore.

Race weekend 2 done. Managed to lead a few races till near the end, shifting issues cost me 2 first place finishes as not being able to get into gear cost me the position. Transmission needs to come out

And the other races just got beat by the bmw 330 cars. Held them off for most of the races. I had great starts for the most part.My setup is still not working though. But im puzzed by my rear tire wear. Both tires have a distinct wear pattern on the outside. This is a solid axle car ( with kenny brown klink ). Is this abnormal wear , is so whats the cause? Im learning as i go, very little experience with car setup. Tires were 33 psi hot. 18by11 wheels.

theamsoilguy said:

Race weekend 2 done. Managed to lead a few races till near the end, shifting issues cost me 2 first place finishes as not being able to get into gear cost me the position. Transmission needs to come out

And the other races just got beat by the bmw 330 cars. Held them off for most of the races. I had great starts for the most part.My setup is still not working though. But im puzzed by my rear tire wear. Both tires have a distinct wear pattern on the outside. This is a solid axle car ( with kenny brown klink ). Is this abnormal wear , is so whats the cause? Im learning as i go, very little experience with car setup. Tires were 33 psi hot. 18by11 wheels.

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Based on your alignment sheet very little negative rear camber. I know this is a solid axel car so probably there is not too much you can do but still you are at 0 negative camber in fact even positive on rear left so you are going to eat tires on the outside with this alignment.

Also if you are racing and want to win you need new or close to new slicks every race not sure what your series rules are regarding number of tire sets used per weekend is but you need to make sure you are always on a fresh set in races with that in mind if your slicks are surviving the race which seams they are you wouldn't care for tire wear as they are overall only used ones in a race.

For example the Dark Horse R Mustang Challenge has a tire contingency of 3 sets of tires per weekend and everyone is using all of this sets because the tires barely survive the whole 45 minutes races. Tire game is the most important part of racing. After that is car setup (to help you still have tires end of race) and driving skill.

theamsoilguy said:

I thought i would want more camber but I corded inside of the passenger front last year at that track. Running 2.7 camber. I have the kenny brown front subframe fyi. I do know that the setup is far from ideal which is why I'm asking for advice. Thanks for suggesting more camber.

I don't know if I should go by temps or wear. It's a clockwise track fyi.

But both wear and temps are telling me too much camber. I know that almost everyone would run more camber, but every track is different

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Dont go by tire temps on production cars, as much a sI like Carroll's "tune to win" series of books, IMO he did not go into production cars enough, although, it might have been because the vast majority of his expereince were open wheel car. Thos books are still a must read for anyone even remotely interested in chassis setup, but you have to remember thos ecars have about 2 inches of suspension travel and the tire stays relatively flat on a light car. Production cars, on the other hand, have suspensions that are designed more for the street, have way...way more movement and so the temp measurement is much different. I had a track where the tire showed lower middle temps, so the logic would be to add psi, problem is, the car already had 31 psi in it. What was happening is that the car was dragging the inside of the tire down the straight, going into entry would transition from inside to outside and cook the outside through the corner, then transition back to the inside. This was all due to massive suspension movement, and just trying to get the lump to handle. so with regards to temps... don't depend on them too much. As long as all of them (or at least most of them) are within the tire's operating range (think 28 degrees at Daytona in February) you should be fine.

wheels, they're wheels....please

Also Teelew touched on caster and camber gain, for the most part, I would jack as much caster in the front as I possibly could, as long as it matches side to side, because in a strut car, that usually reaults in a large camber gain throughout the turn, which these cars really need.