Thoughts on Shcroth QuickFit Pro before I purchase?

[KazarS197]

Oh nice, thanks for the photo! They definitely hold better than stock seatbelts right?
I'm struggling to hold myself against the steering wheel during heavy downhill brakes.
Hoping these will actually hold my body in place

They do hold you in place better than regular belts. I don't think heavy braking on the track would be much fun without them. I did extensive research before I purchased. There is a love hate relationship and opinions with the quickfit harnesses. I think that debate will go on until the is some kind of documentation of an accident with a rollover and the person involved is wearing a quickfit. This is the only video I have ever found for a crash test. Looks like it works pretty well with a hans. There is also the Schoth video on the website.

I also took one major factor into the equation, my height. I'm not tall only 5' 6". I personally think they are a good option for a smaller stature guy like me. I have plenty of room from my head and roof even with a helmet but who knows what the hell would happen with the roof in a significant accident. I have a history of a roll over back in the day- hit black ice in a dip in the road around a sweeping bend - ya driving too fast too - 2000 ford focus, blew out all the windows, broke off the drivers side wheels , crushed the driver side roof in by 6 inches and broke off the gear shifter with my hip. Fortunately the only injury that I got was I cut one finger climbing back in the car to get my phone. You have absolutely no control of you body in accident like that. You are at the mercy of G forces. I did have my seat belt on and was still tossed around. At the junk yard, I had to get back in the car to get my belongings and sat in the drivers seat just to see if my head touched because I had no idea how I did not get injured - it did not. I know, I know - the roof is higher in a focus. I think there is a give and take with everthing with high performance driving with a "street car " that has been modified for the track with our budgets. If we all had the cash we would all have full out race cars. I am guilty of not having a hans. That is my next purchase. Good luck in making your decision - I guess you have to make your decision on what you feel is right for you after you do your due diligence.

 

[Cornerz]

If I roll over without car having rollbar I rather have stock seat belt. I don't like idea of been strapped solid and roof collapsing on my head. With stock seat belt I may have chance to duck.
For me it is either all or nothing. I bought my car with rollbar and harness in it and did not want rollbar. I took both rollbar and harness out and doing HPDE with stock belt.
Some things just need to go together, like race seat, rollbar/cage, harness (6 point), neck device and fire gear.

You will never have the reaction time to "duck". Your stock belts are going to tighten via the explosive recoiler so fast that they will bruise you.

Choosing any safety equipment is a compromise. Risk = likelihood x consequence. Car with airbags and a helmet - how does the system interfere with your now larger head, and how does the weight of the helmet effect safety? How does windows being open effect side curtain bags? How does not having consistent driving position relative to the car's controls increase the likelihood of error by the driver that causes the incident in the first place? OEM 3 point belts are like operating an excavator while jogging on the spot - how can you ever repeat the same inputs in a given corner?

Then you look at FHR (Frontal Head Restraint) devices to avoid basalar skull fractures due to your now heavier helmeted head, so you consider one that works with 3 point vice 4/5/6 point harnesses - you are way more likely to pile into a solid wall at full speed and your unsupported neck is not going to like that at all. Then you ask, which is most likely to be used correctly? HANS with shoulder harnesses is most likely to be correctly used and way less of a pain to get into. Roof collapse into a helmeted head on a stock seat is more likely to break the seat back than the helmet or drivers neck. Combine that with modern car construction that drastically increased passenger compartment strength for roll overs well beyond what any roll cage did for a car in the 70's or 80's.

Would I drive a vintage Datsun 510 with a race seat and shoulder harnesses without a cage - no way, the thing is a Kleenex box as far as strength goes. Would I drive a 2010 Mustang/WRX/Golf etc in the same config - absolutely. B pillars in those are so strong that even in full tumble roll overs that I've attended to in stage rally, the body rarely moves enough to even contact the cage roll bar inside the envelope.

Then there's the 4 point submarine argument, which Schroth's ASM handles well. FYI, there are other FIA approved 4 point harness systems out there, so obviously someone has determined there are situations where they can be used to improve safety. If you have two helmeted occupants, you are really likely to smash heads together in a rollover with only 3 point harnesses in use.

In the end, I would go with the engineering that a company like Schroth has done and be very happy with using their Quick Fit Pro in one of the vehicles that they list as an approved car for the system.

 

[TWF]

You will never have the reaction time to "duck". Your stock belts are going to tighten via the explosive recoiler so fast that they will bruise you.

Maybe, maybe not. Already had belts tighten and windows roll up on me, no bruise.
Also rolled SxS few times with stock 3 points.
It is all risk, I am just choosing which way I am going about it. I think I saw picture on this site, mustang with roof completely flat.

 

[Coz]

Hallett/Car FX Mustang flips over after hitting tire wall

www.topspeed.com

 

[Cornerz]

Hallett/Car FX Mustang flips over after hitting tire wall

www.topspeed.com

And yet somehow the driver walked away and the roll cage burst through the floor at its mounts. The driver would not have come out as well with a 3 point OEM belt in my view.

 

[Vettel-ish]

If I roll over without car having rollbar I rather have stock seat belt. I don't like idea of been strapped solid and roof collapsing on my head. With stock seat belt I may have chance to duck.
For me it is either all or nothing. I bought my car with rollbar and harness in it and did not want rollbar. I took both rollbar and harness out and doing HPDE with stock belt.
Some things just need to go together, like race seat, rollbar/cage, harness (6 point), neck device and fire gear.

This is what I was going to say. Thought I read not to run these without a bar because of the possibility of a neck injury and a bad one at that.

 

[Cornerz]

This is what I was going to say. Thought I read not to run these without a bar because of the possibility of a neck injury and a bad one at that.

You’ll hear lots of things around a race track. I follow the input of engineers and designers with extensive track records in the sport. Schroth and HMS Motorsport are who I will trust.

 

[strengthrehab]

You’ll hear lots of things around a race track. I follow the input of engineers and designers with extensive track records in the sport. Schroth and HMS Motorsport are who I will trust.

Great video. Learned a few things and I run these in my autocross/track/street car.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

The all or nothing debate needs to be put to rest. It's either a street car or a race car. If you crash hard enough in anything life risk is high.

Rollover incidents are statically rare compared to impacts.

You will always be safer on track than driving to it. On track, everyone is going in the same direction and paying attention. No one is checking Facebook on track while sipping coffee.

Schroth only releases model specific restraint systems after extensive testing of all seat models available on that particular model. All the anchor points are also tested. They also integrate with the airbag system.

Schroth ASM technology actually does a better job of keeping you away from the roof than the factory 3 point belts. In a multi event incident they also continue to hold you in the seat where the airbags only deploy once.

When the ASM belts are properly fitted, the lap belts are uncomfortably tight on the hips, then the shoulders are pulled down. It is critical that the center latch be down at your hips, not your belly button.

The human hip area is the strongest part, it will take massive forces. Remember a instant deceleration event at 30MPH is a 15 or 30g hit(honestly can't remember) that is also transferred to a helmet heavy head attachment if not wearing a Hans device.

The way the ASM works is the extra patch of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt releases in an impact event and that causes the body to twist, preventing submarining. If you twist something, you make it shorter (away from the roofline)

If you have mass(ie large boned), the three point belt makes it all but impossible to remain in control of the vehicle, you have to brace your leg against the door, your upper body against the steering wheel. Its very difficult to propely control the wheel whilst also using it to hold you upright. Its nearly impossible to properly modulate the brake and throttle if you are trying to stay in the seat. The ASM restraint checks all these boxes, it prevents a loss of control so you don't end up testing how well they work.

A roll bar is not a rollcage, if you need a bar, you need a cage. Again, application is street car being used on track. If you go that route, you need a proper seat base, a proper racing seat and properly installed 6 point restraint system, and removal of all airbags. You can not go back to the factory OEM belts on the street after this, they will not work with a racing seat, you do not want to be restrained by a 6 point in a road accident, unless you have a death wish, the potential for body contact with the bar while not being properly restrained will not be a good day either.

HPDE is about car control, in a STREET Car. It's not racing, it's driver education. Being restrained to maintain control while not affecting the safety, usability of the vehicle for the other 90% of the time is a no brainer to run the Schroth Pro-Fit.

While I was at PRI I spoke to HMS about putting out Mustang specific videos and explaining the system design and operation. There is way too much completely inaccurate information floating around. I've never spoken to anyone in the SCCA or NASA in person who discourges the use of the ASM restraint, half the guys here in the Central Florida Region SCCA run them in their own street cars. But the self proclaimed Tech inspectors on FB always claim the are not allowed. Yet they have no problem with people sitting on crotch straps or better yet cutting holes in OEM seat pans or using those home brew brackets that attach to oem rear mounted seat mounting studs completely putting the belts at the wrong angle and now introducing a side load on a stud designed for shear forces.

Just because people do this all the time, doesn't make it safe. If you never crashed with it, you never tested its safety. Talking about it on the internet does not make you a restraint systems engineer.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

Also most HPDE groups require the driver and instructor be restrained in a similar fashion. So if the instructor does not have a Hans device you still can run your instructor laps with the OEM 3 point belts.