four-walling
Kerry, San Diego
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I did say it, I love those engines, they sound mean. Plus I would love to own one.cosm3os said:How dare you come on here and not only crap on the Boss, but then use the "F" word! The Deuce is rolling over in his grave!
very well said!!!!!!NeuRon said:I don't post much but I look around here several times a day. Thought I'd throw my opinion in the ring:
The Boss, as others have pointed out, was/is considered the best Mustang ever in the automotive press. For many enthusiasts, that's the closest they'll get to experiencing many fine cars. I was in the market for a Roush Stage 2, because the GT handled like a pig and a Stage 3 or GT500 was out of my price range. The suspension improvement and stronger engine internals, better cooling and warranty are what attracted me for use as a daily driver where summer temps are 100+ for nearly two months. The TracKey was a really cool bonus, I thought. I was happy enough with the package that it took me a year to activate TracKey (that's all I use now) and 3/4" side-exhaust plates are it's only mod so far. It's solely a daily driver and it's really well-rounded for that purpose.
Sure, a GT can be made to perform just as well and is already there in terms of power. Newer models will, at some point, have all the "gimmicks" and better performance but that's to be expected. Living with it daily, I'm aware that it's limited production and legendary aura are what set it apart. Many Mustang drivers break their neck (the younger ones) when they see it and the others want to prove (to me or themselves?) that it's not all that special. The myth and mystic are there and will forever remain. How much that justifies being "special" is up to the person you ask. I take it for what it's worth to me: In a sea of Mustangs, modified to set themselves apart, it stands tall in factory trim. That said, one day I want to add forced induction so that it can lay the smack down and continue to build on the myth. The engine internals should help in that regard.
Many automotive milestones and hot models of the past are crap when compared to modern sedans, much less performance cars. That doesn't really tarnish their image all that much because it was gained in the perspective of their own time. This is and will be the case with the Boss. It's special, in no small part, because so many people consider it to be. As owners, were in touch with the things that make it special to us but those aren't always the same as what's turned it into a modern-day legend. The myth is usually larger than the man, as they say. I know it's a great Mustang from the factory but a special thanks to the automotive press for it's mythical status! It will be a benchmark for a good while and that is something special in and of itself.
As for track duty: Sure mods are going to help you be more competitive. Show me competitive cars that remain unchanged for dedicated track duty. But it can hang ok on the track and it's pretty damn impressive on the street. Racing is great for sales and has been known to build some historical legends but the street is where most of the legendary status is secured for many. There are plenty of young drivers around here who have or will tell their friends about seeing a Boss 302 and it living up to the hype. Those impressions will remain strong in their memories far longer than the Boss will remain the Best Factory Mustang Ever. The myth is large, indeed, and that's the type of "special" that's hard to obtain. Suspension and power are performance areas that can be improved on any car. As my daily driver, I'm real happy that Ford put together such a well-rounded tool, that works so good together, for my use. It's special image is just icing on the cake!
I thought the original Quattro was what started winning Audi rally championships because before that they were either FWD or RWD not AWD. To me I would say special is that something is unique about the car that others don't have. It does however seem that most of my "special" cars, another being any of the Konigseggs or the Pagani's is that they are different and aren't cut from the same cloth.Jimmy Pribble said:New Boss has the same number of championships (one), which was won by Paul Brown, who had the same win record as Parnelli Jones.
Now, let's talk about those special cars. A lot of them are unique and almost unobtainium. I was worried THAT would be your standard. But then you mentioned the Audi Quattro. Nice. I agree that it's special. I have owned one. But why do you think it's special? The quattro system? An unsophisticated locker available on the pedestrian 4000 quattro. The 10V turbo? You mean the engine of the original unintended acceleration car - the Audi 5000? They made a million of those. A slow, common, and terrible motor from grandpa's runaway Audi. Was it the body? It's just a coupe GT body with some fender flares. But, I admit the flares are unique and unavailable on any other Audi. Was it the rally heritage? Well, now we are back to that. Successful racing making the street car special.
I'm trying to find your standard for a special car. In the end, it might not square with the things I think make the Boss special. That's ok. I just thought I would give it the old college try.
Rarity - fewer Boss Mustangs (about 8,289) than Audi Quattros (about 11, 452, though only about 664 in the US)
Race Cred - WC Championship, factory-supported racing in two pro road racing series
Track Cred - development target was M3, TracKey, TrackAttack
Competitor Cred - those crybabies at GM hold the discontinued Boss in such regard that they just used it to compare against their new Z28
Automotive Press Cred - check the magazine thread for the number of covers the Boss mustang got (OMG, the Top Gear snobs put it on their cover TWICE)
Special Engine - Roadrunner - developed for Boss, not available in anything else.
Unique Appearance - check
Satisfaction/Devotion Index - what can be said here? People are lunatics for this car.
One other quick note, it's not really fair to criticize the Boss for the stock suspension (for example) and then say that a Boss can be "made from a catalog." If you allow for one, then you should allow for the other. IMO, it would be best to leave everything stock-to-stock for these kind of discussions.
One last time, not picking on you or anything, but really just trying to get what you think is special about cars to help you get to an understanding of why many of us think the Boss is special.
Same here, and some of this is just good fun in debating.GR8WYT said:I like the debate, I like the knowledgable info and I like the opinions. If I didn't I would not come back daily to read people's insight. Jimmy you did deliver and I like a twisting thread. I can only read so many "what do you think of this" posts.
NeuRon said:I don't post much but I look around here several times a day. Thought I'd throw my opinion in the ring:
The Boss, as others have pointed out, was/is considered the best Mustang ever in the automotive press. For many enthusiasts, that's the closest they'll get to experiencing many fine cars. I was in the market for a Roush Stage 2, because the GT handled like a pig and a Stage 3 or GT500 was out of my price range. The suspension improvement and stronger engine internals, better cooling and warranty are what attracted me for use as a daily driver where summer temps are 100+ for nearly two months. The TracKey was a really cool bonus, I thought. I was happy enough with the package that it took me a year to activate TracKey (that's all I use now) and 3/4" side-exhaust plates are it's only mod so far. It's solely a daily driver and it's really well-rounded for that purpose.
Sure, a GT can be made to perform just as well and is already there in terms of power. Newer models will, at some point, have all the "gimmicks" and better performance but that's to be expected. Living with it daily, I'm aware that it's limited production and legendary aura are what set it apart. Many Mustang drivers break their neck (the younger ones) when they see it and the others want to prove (to me or themselves?) that it's not all that special. The myth and mystic are there and will forever remain. How much that justifies being "special" is up to the person you ask. I take it for what it's worth to me: In a sea of Mustangs, modified to set themselves apart, it stands tall in factory trim. That said, one day I want to add forced induction so that it can lay the smack down and continue to build on the myth. The engine internals should help in that regard.
Many automotive milestones and hot models of the past are crap when compared to modern sedans, much less performance cars. That doesn't really tarnish their image all that much because it was gained in the perspective of their own time. This is and will be the case with the Boss. It's special, in no small part, because so many people consider it to be. As owners, were in touch with the things that make it special to us but those aren't always the same as what's turned it into a modern-day legend. The myth is usually larger than the man, as they say. I know it's a great Mustang from the factory but a special thanks to the automotive press for it's mythical status! It will be a benchmark for a good while and that is something special in and of itself.
As for track duty: Sure mods are going to help you be more competitive. Show me competitive cars that remain unchanged for dedicated track duty. But it can hang ok on the track and it's pretty damn impressive on the street. Racing is great for sales and has been known to build some historical legends but the street is where most of the legendary status is secured for many. There are plenty of young drivers around here who have or will tell their friends about seeing a Boss 302 and it living up to the hype. Those impressions will remain strong in their memories far longer than the Boss will remain the Best Factory Mustang Ever. The myth is large, indeed, and that's the type of "special" that's hard to obtain. Suspension and power are performance areas that can be improved on any car. As my daily driver, I'm real happy that Ford put together such a well-rounded tool, that works so good together, for my use. It's special image is just icing on the cake!
the heads are factory ported and come with unique valves. It is a big deal to get that from the factory. There isn't a better head out for the 4v 5.0l engine. Then there is the race spec bearings and everything else that let's you wind these motors to 8200 with ease...try that with a gt motor see how long it lasts. Can't compare it to an old 5.0l motor with trick flow heads not even close to the same comparison. The 93 cobra r is close to a comparison and that is a special car...same for the 2000 cobra r another great one from ford.Brandon302 said:I thought the original Quattro was what started winning Audi rally championships because before that they were either FWD or RWD not AWD. To me I would say special is that something is unique about the car that others don't have. It does however seem that most of my "special" cars, another being any of the Konigseggs or the Pagani's is that they are different and aren't cut from the same cloth.
And to Grant302, the motor isn't revolutionary, it is a 5.0L with forged internals, the heads are different and so is the intake, but how is that special. Same thing could be said about an old 302 with trick flow heads and intake, that's not all that special, just better parts on the same motor. Now had they done what some have suggested the Voodoo motor is supposed to be, that would be special.
Brandon302 said:And to Grant302, the motor isn't revolutionary, it is a 5.0L with forged internals, the heads are different and so is the intake, but how is that special. Same thing could be said about an old 302 with trick flow heads and intake, that's not all that special, just better parts on the same motor. Now had they done what some have suggested the Voodoo motor is supposed to be, that would be special.
Ahh just when I was going to ask you to explain what makes it any more special than the new Jag's 5.0 or any other company's V8. Oh well.Grant 302 said:Like Justin says...there's no comparison to the old 302 with the heads/intake...or just forged internals. The new Coyote 5.0 is already pretty amazing for a domestic V8, but the Boss took all of that and really turned it up a notch...enough so that it's used as-is in competition, and to my knowledge has the most restriction in GS. Truly, the two engines have very few parts in common.
Frankly, it now just sounds like you have absolutely no clue to what makes the Boss special...if you can't even understand why the engine is. Seems like the most basic of car guy stuff to me...I'm out for this part of the thread. I'll just have to enjoy my Voodoo.