Remarkably little wear for that much use. You corded the inside, but the rest of the tread looks like it is still ready to hit the track. I got less use out of my Trofeo RS. Could your cording on the inside be the result of .2 toe out rather than the -3.2 camber? (I am merely asking, not venturing an opinion).

TeeLew said:

There are generally better tire options with 18" wheels and a little extra sidewall height is not a bad thing. It is possible to catch a rock and destroy a wheel, but it's rare. Having everything tighter to the disc/caliper might make is less likely to happen, but more of a problem if it does. It's hard to know, but I don't think that would be the decider for me either way.

View attachment 108771

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Scary looking wheel mishap

Junkyard Dog said:

Scary looking wheel mishap

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Ya, it was about the cleanest one I've ever seen. It's more common to see minor scars or possibly a dent.

Junkyard Dog said:

Remarkably little wear for that much use. You corded the inside, but the rest of the tread looks like it is still ready to hit the track. I got less use out of my Trofeo RS. Could your cording on the inside be the result of .2 toe out rather than the -3.2 camber? (I am merely asking, not venturing an opinion).

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That looks like wear from dragging the inner edge of the inner tire. BNight, you've been saying you have too much U/S, and the tires are saying the same thing. It doesn't sound like he's running excessive toe-out, but it might be making the issue worse? Toe-out tends to give better steering response, but I find it can hurt mid-corner grip with some tires. Going towards or to toe-in will reduce the steering response, but it might help front grip mid-corner. It's a very tire/steering geometry/preference type of a thing, but worth experimenting with.

TeeLew said:

That looks like wear from dragging the inner edge of the inner tire. BNight, you've been saying you have too much U/S, and the tires are saying the same thing. It doesn't sound like he's running excessive toe-out, but it might be making the issue worse? Toe-out tends to give better steering response, but I find it can hurt mid-corner grip with some tires. Going towards or to toe-in will reduce the steering response, but it might help front grip mid-corner. It's a very tire/steering geometry/preference type of a thing, but worth experimenting with.

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I have a bit of understeer on corner entry though mid corner the car is on rails. That cording on the inner is for sure from too much camber as my tracks are flat and I'm too high on the outer edge wear so the -3.2 camber is actually too much sadly there is no way to run less camber as I'm very close to the fenders. What I should have done to extend the tire life a bit was to rotate fronts to rear at some point mid life. Will do it with the current set that will help the cording issue a bit.

TeeLew said:

you have too much U/S,

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bnight said:

I have a bit of understeer

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I am glad he translated for you. I was sitting here thinking, "U/S?"

bnight said:

I have a bit of understeer on corner entry though mid corner the car is on rails. That cording on the inner is for sure from too much camber as my tracks are flat and I'm too high on the outer edge wear so the -3.2 camber is actually too much sadly there is no way to run less camber as I'm very close to the fenders. What I should have done to extend the tire life a bit was to rotate fronts to rear at some point mid life. Will do it with the current set that will help the cording issue a bit.

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That big lump sitting between the front tires isn't helping. There's not much you can do about that. Have you worked with rear ride height much? Increasing the rear ride height (adding chassis rake) will usually improve front grip early in the corner and provide earlier rotation in the corner. It's an easy enough thing to try and might take a bit of load off the fronts?

Reducing front toe-out might slow the turn-in further, which would work against you. It still might be worth experimenting with a couple settings, but probably not what I'd go for first. Reducing rear toe-in might be a better approach? By allowing the rear to do more of the turning of the car, that will reduce the front tire load/steering angle.

I find when I'm getting inner edge wear like yours that I have too much understeer in long-duration corners and the wear is from dragging the inside tire as opposed to overloading the outside tire (which usually gives middle-to-outside shoulder wear). You may just need an overall reduction in U/S, which relates back to the rear spring change you've mentioned.

TeeLew said:

I find when I'm getting inner edge wear like yours that I have too much understeer in long-duration corners and the wear is from dragging the inside tire

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Something new to think about . . .

TeeLew said:

That big lump sitting between the front tires isn't helping. There's not much you can do about that. Have you worked with rear ride height much? Increasing the rear ride height (adding chassis rake) will usually improve front grip early in the corner and provide earlier rotation in the corner. It's an easy enough thing to try and might take a bit of load off the fronts?

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I actually have too much rear grip. I usually run my coilovers with 2 less rebound on the rear that help with corner entry understeer. I moved to more aggressive rebound settings last season and now front and rear use the same rebound clicks. This added corner entry understeer. I will be doing a rear rebound sweeps this season to figure out which is better.

TeeLew said:

Reducing front toe-out might slow the turn-in further, which would work against you. It still might be worth experimenting with a couple settings, but probably not what I'd go for first. Reducing rear toe-in might be a better approach? By allowing the rear to do more of the turning of the car, that will reduce the front tire load/steering angle.

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I currently run less rear toe-in than front but it might need to be reduced a bit more to add a bit more rotation in the rear.

TeeLew said:

I find when I'm getting inner edge wear like yours that I have too much understeer in long-duration corners and the wear is from dragging the inside tire as opposed to overloading the outside tire (which usually gives middle-to-outside shoulder wear). You may just need an overall reduction in U/S, which relates back to the rear spring change you've mentioned.

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You are partly right as I said the outer edge is not loaded enough in long corners but I think it's mostly because first I run high spring rates (500 lbs) and second my tracks are slow and flat and -3.2 is actually a lot of camber that I sadly can't reduce. But Yeah overall it comes down to the rear end having way more grip than needed.

Raise rear ride height to improve rotation mid corner. Put a click of rebound in to reduce the dive unloading under heavy braking if you do, Work it in 1/8" increments. I like 3/8-1/2" (10-13mm) rake.

Man, a guy goes out of town on a little vacation and this thread blows up! Tons of good information, and definitely a lot to learn.

What I see in the photos is a set of MPSC2's that are pretty much perfect from a wear standpoint. MPSC2's have different rubber compounds across the face of the tread, and the grooves are shallower toward the outside, so the outside wears a bit faster than the inside, regardless of camber. However, your outsides still have markings on them, which means they're wearing very evenly and as they stand, they're still useable, although I'd avoid driving in the wet with them.

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@JAJ since there are different compounds across the face of the Cup 2's, would it not be advantageous to run more negative camber to take advantage of that, especially with lighter wheels? Although you said the wear was even, it looks like the outside will wear much faster than the inside with continued use as is.

It seems like the consensus is to increase negative camber and zero out toe or go slightly toe out upfront, and dial it back some in the rear. Set it to a good track spec and leave it there!

Deadly0ne said:

I'm wondering if I have too much negative camber and toe-in for a dual purpose car, and if so, how I could relatively easily make changes for upcoming track days without paying for alignments constantly.
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Arriving late to this thread.

FWIW, in my experience I would say there are 2 track days (4 hours) left on those tires, provided you rotated front/rear axles. I have been running -3.2 front camber with Cup2, wearing the outer half front tires first, but I will have more neg camber this season.

stevbd said:

... Most people set the street alignment where they want it, with camber plates in the most upright position and zero toe, and then adjust to add neg camber when at the track. The toe out this creates aids turn in and is fun. End of day, put back to stock street setting. Easy. ...

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steveespo said:

... Always remember that toe moves a lot when putting negative camber in and out. I see so many posts saying, ... Set camber first, then check and reset toe. Then recheck camber and maybe make a fine adjustment, and a final toe check. Roll and bounce the suspension each time you jack the car as well.

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DaveW said:

... One thing that is dead nuts reliable and repeatable is threaded adjustments like on tie rods. If you like toe out at the track for the turn in, you can mark the two spots really easily while on the machine and then just move between the paint marks at the track.

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I use the two-color paint on the tie rod flats for switching between street and track alignments.
Tips for easily adjusting Camber and Toe between street and track settings

I use these methods for DIY alignments.
Slotting the strut for more camber
At-home method for measuring camber
At-home method for measuring toe with Toe Plates
Review of Rear Camber Adjustment Kit (Steeda or J&M camber arm brackets)
My DIY Wheel Cribs

I just finished a design for more precise camber setting at the track.
DIY Camber gauge for Steeda plates

I use @GTP 's method. It has worked well for me and does not take that much time after the initial work setting up the two alignment settings; one for street and one for track. I move my camber plate all the way out which basically duplicates the stock OEM street camber setting, with toe-in set at zero; then when going to a track day I move the camber plate all the way to the other side for track camber, crawl under and turn my tie rods to rezero the toe (I also use GTP's idea to paint the flats on the tie rod for easy identification of each toe-in setting). When I get home I just return the settings back to street mode again.

It may not be precision perfect but it's quick and easy, works, and it's simple. For me at least. I'm on 200tw tires at the track and all seasons on the street, and both sets seem to be wearing as well as can be expected.

@GTP I saw your post on M6G - are you making those plates for sale? I'm a little confused about the marking of the flats and how you're gauging the necessary amount of turns. I need to read that part again.

Deadly0ne said:

@GTP I saw your post on M6G - are you making those plates for sale? I'm a little confused about the marking of the flats and how you're gauging the necessary amount of turns. I need to read that part again.

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Yes, I made a few. DM me. It works with Steeda plates only.