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You are valuing streetability over track that’s going to drive you into very different mods then track over street. So in your case i get it. But obviously will not yield the best performance on track
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Suspension soft?
- Thread starterGunslinger55
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It means that the mechanic doesn't really want to do the work and so he offers something easy to placate the customer. He thinks to himself, "This dipsiht won't know the difference anyway, why am I going to do all this work when it's not going to matter what I do?"
I get pissy when I take a couple hours to give people really good information and then the next shiny thing they see they run off in that direction. If you're just going to go to McHotRods in the end, anyway, then don't waste my time by asking questions.
It doesn't really matter. All their spring combos suck.
Alot of interesting comments here...some more productive than others.
It was my final decision what to do with my car, and it was mostly because of current events in my personal life and trying to be more forward thinking instead of using my tiny primal motorsport brain. I discussed this with Trent but didn't share my private life plans with all of you for the sake of privacy and simplicity. I guess another example of where compromise can fall short heh.
Trent gets flown out to work with the Ford Performance race team for weeks at a time, and he works on many track enthusiasts cars in bay area and here on forums. Many who know/work with him respect him, and so do I. His reasoning was not because current 250lb springs are faster(He agrees it needs more spring), it's taking into consideration the entire life context I shared with him and my goals with the car. I'll leave it at that. I don't want the focus to be on Trent, it should be on our cars and our decisions.
I see this as "no harm, no foul" decision because I still have the kit, can always put it on after my next track day after I feel the new wheels, tires and brakes. I am also NOT chasing lap times, I am NOT competing, I am chasing better car feel and performance for more enjoyment. How much more enjoyment per dollar am I getting out of the springs? That's the golden question. I'm on 200TW endurance tires, I do not trailer the car, I still value street comfort, I generally like how the car currently handles.
I'll wait to see how things play out in the next month or two and then I'll decide on what to do next. I still want to thank everyone for their advice, and helpful comments!
It was my final decision what to do with my car, and it was mostly because of current events in my personal life and trying to be more forward thinking instead of using my tiny primal motorsport brain. I discussed this with Trent but didn't share my private life plans with all of you for the sake of privacy and simplicity. I guess another example of where compromise can fall short heh.
Trent gets flown out to work with the Ford Performance race team for weeks at a time, and he works on many track enthusiasts cars in bay area and here on forums. Many who know/work with him respect him, and so do I. His reasoning was not because current 250lb springs are faster(He agrees it needs more spring), it's taking into consideration the entire life context I shared with him and my goals with the car. I'll leave it at that. I don't want the focus to be on Trent, it should be on our cars and our decisions.
I see this as "no harm, no foul" decision because I still have the kit, can always put it on after my next track day after I feel the new wheels, tires and brakes. I am also NOT chasing lap times, I am NOT competing, I am chasing better car feel and performance for more enjoyment. How much more enjoyment per dollar am I getting out of the springs? That's the golden question. I'm on 200TW endurance tires, I do not trailer the car, I still value street comfort, I generally like how the car currently handles.
I'll wait to see how things play out in the next month or two and then I'll decide on what to do next. I still want to thank everyone for their advice, and helpful comments!
Coming off rude with lots of assumptions here, but a fair intrepretation from your perspective. If I had said I wanted them on anyways, they would be on the car. Again, I intentionally left out many details.
Tim, I do value your input and it's great information - so still, thank you. I know you have best intentions at heart and its frustrating to see someone you steer right, take what you feel is the wrong path(stupid kid doesnt know what's good for em). I still have the kit and I am still heavily leaning on installing them after next track day just out of curiousity. Or maybe just to quit your whining
Food for thought: Maybe I realized that didn't really want to pay for the extra labor and Trent gave me an out?(win-win) Maybe I want to install them myself with a buddy in my garage drinking cold beers and listening to Willie Nelson?
For those of you that are badmouthing Trent, you should all shut your mouths. He was one of the guys that designed and developed Cortex with Filip. He didn’t move with Cortex because this is his home.
Trent will do what you want to your car. He will also advise you what he thinks is the best option for your plans. I’ve thrown things at him and he has told me he will gladly take my money but it’s a waste of time and money on my end. Ford Performance calls him for advice. He was flown out to races to be support. I’d say he has more skills and knowledge that most of us here.
He will even pick up the phone or reply back with a text if you need support. I have needed his lift at night and was granted access to his shop.
I can truly say I’m am disappointed with those of you that are talking bad about him or questioning his judgement. Maybe if you keyboard bandits get to Sonoma I’ll gladly take you to his shop and you can see is OCD quality of work.
Trent will do what you want to your car. He will also advise you what he thinks is the best option for your plans. I’ve thrown things at him and he has told me he will gladly take my money but it’s a waste of time and money on my end. Ford Performance calls him for advice. He was flown out to races to be support. I’d say he has more skills and knowledge that most of us here.
He will even pick up the phone or reply back with a text if you need support. I have needed his lift at night and was granted access to his shop.
I can truly say I’m am disappointed with those of you that are talking bad about him or questioning his judgement. Maybe if you keyboard bandits get to Sonoma I’ll gladly take you to his shop and you can see is OCD quality of work.
I suggest you go through my Build thread there are 8 seasons of track days and knowhow on becoming the fastest American Car on track in Bulgaria (The current American Muscle Fest finished today and still fastest only car coming close is a modded C6 Z06). I run Ohlins R&T (515/800 lbs) with Steeda Competition front swaybar 35 mm on second hole (580 lbs rate). I have Steeda CC plates with -3.2 degrees of front camber, Apex 19x11 wheels wrapped in a set of 295/35/19 Yoko A052s and 0 aero on the car (my tracks are slow anyway). Car is still daily drivable though I don't do it mostly because the exhaust is really annoying (3" Steeda Catback). I even still pass emissions and the car has around 410 WHP.
There is the thing if you want to move to 200TW wide tires the car will have more grip from tires but with soft springs (I consider 250 lbs really soft) the car will lean more and be more harder to control or borderline dangerous. A lot of people on my end of the woods buy wheels and tires and wonder why they still can't improve as much as the car with the 500 lbs springs. For example the closest Mustang to me is a 800 WHP Supercharged A10 car with 100TW 305 AR1 tires on FP Dumpers and BMR handling springs (250/980 lbs) the car is sliding in straight line and 1 and a half seconds behind the N/A S550 with the 500 lbs springs and MT82 trans. Wonder why is that.
OK, first, I'm not trying to bad-mouth anyone. I talked to some guy up in Sonoma a while ago and tried to have a setup conversation for a friend who was getting some work done. The conversation started out with, "I like to set the car up loose..." and I kinda zoned-out after that. I can't remember what the guy's name was. It might be the same and it might not. I'm not questioning his work ethic. I do think pushing the Steeda spring path is lazy and not the best answer for either track or street performance. I've never been quiet about this with anyone and am unlikely to stop now.
Rod, If we were sitting at a picnic table having beers and we had the exact same exchange, I would have said the same stuff. I would have said something like, "WTF are you doing that for? I GAVE you the answer." It's not meant maliciously and I'd even grab the next beer for you.....but I'm still gonna say it. I'd probably even help you put it on the car. Then I'd give you siht when we were pulling it back off.
Reminder: The 200TW Endurance tires I plan to run are 305 square Yoko AD09. These shouldn't really be much more grip or much faster than my current square 275 Conti ECS02. They should tolerate heat a helluva lot better and last many more track days I reckon. Although the way I drive, my ECS and 4S tires have always held up beautifully to thousands of street miles and multiple track days per set - I just can feel them giving up grip as they overheat a bit, and I don't want to have to hold myself back mid session because of tires.
I know you mean well, and internet forums is not always the most optimal place to express ourselves in the way we want others to interpret.... Also, I would insist that I grab our first round of beers. I hope you like cervesas
The ECS02 is a 360TW tire and is narrower tire at 275 vs the 305 200TW AD09 you will have a tons more grip and you will feel exactly how soft is the Magneride suspension with real track tires. This tires will last longer for sure the Mustang really need the 305 wide tires to have more contact patch especially upfront and my A052s are lasting really well and the AD09 are even better. But again the issue will be that with the soft springs you will still get excessive body roll in corners which could be dangerous even with a Swaybar you will be lifting the inside front off the ground. Here is an example video this is with the OEM PP1 springs 275 200TW China tires camber plates and front Swaybar notice what the inside front tire is doing.
And this is the same track but with proper Ohlins R&T coilovers:
Notice how much more planted the inside front tire is with the 500 lbs springs and the better control from the firmer suspension. This on a 295/35/19 Yokohama A052.
You can see the car is much flatter.
How does driving on the street feel differently from the stock springs?
It's not too bad it's stiffer for sure and some bumps are a bit more audible than usual but it's actually very composed ride considering how much modified the car suspension is.
You will feel quick, sharp bumps more, but they settle much faster, so they're kind of less disturbing than when soft. Bigger, slow bumps move the stock front end quite a bit (think road undulations, big curbs, crests, compressions, etc.). With the stiffer springs, it follows the road better and the chassis doesn't move around as much, especially after the bump. It's similar to the ride difference between a Mustang to a BMW CS model car.
Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. If you don't like it, change it to something else or put it back stock. At the end of the day, only you can determine if you like it.
From my experience, TW rating is not always a very accurate metric for comparing tires, and if I recall not well regulated or enforced. There is Hankook RS4 and Bridgestone RE71RZ, both 200TW, yet completely different pace, longevity and characteristics. Same applies to the 340TW you referenced for Conti ECS02, which performs well above what the TW rating would suggest, especially compared to the Michelin 4S 300TW. From my hours of research, AD09 should be similar in pace to Cup2 or RS4, which are a lil bit faster than PS4S and ECS02. I am not necessarily chasing lap times but rather: heat tolerance, consistency and longevity.
275 to 305 is about 10% more rubber on the ground, same with 10 inch to 11 inch wheel - not sure if that truly equals 10% more grip or performance. I'll see how the car does on AD09 and with 305 tires.
I would actually prefer if the car doesn't wobble as much on street too, but I felt that was more due to lack of damping from normal mode magride tuning. Doesn't wobble as much in sport or track mode damper tuning.
I'm still planning on Thunderhill East 3 Mile track day on June 18th. Afterwards, plan to install front 400LB spring and AJ Kit.
