Suspension soft?

[Junkyard Dog]

I will report back with details on install if I can, and on how the 400lb springs compare to the 250 front.

Thank you!

As for DSC install/removal, it sits behind the trunk subwoofer. I’ve replaced my rear taillight so accessing the DSC area takes 15-20 minutes iirc. Not too bad, but I think most keep the DSC in there 24/7 for street and track without swapping.

I guess my thought was twofold.

(1) Run it at the track with and without the DCS controller to see whether it drops a couple of seconds off of your track time. If so, keep it for sure!​

and​

(2) If it is an annoyance on the street, well, take it out! Let the Ford "normal" setting make the street a little more livable.​

It might be the best of both worlds just to swap it in and out.

The C7 Corvette guys were going on and on about some GM engineer who did a DSC tuning for their cars and how it both improved driving on the street and reduced track lap times.

DSC Sport Shock Controller observations - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

C7 Z06 Discussion - DSC Sport Shock Controller observations - Note there is a parallel thread discussing the DSC Controller in the C7 General Forum. It provides a great deal of additional information, comments and buyers critiques. Here's the link:...

www.corvetteforum.com

And apparently, they keep improving it. Unfortunately, it does not appear we have any whiz kid geniuses doing our Mustang tuning with the DSC.

If, however, the DSC controller really can reduce lap times at your favorite track with the currently available and existing tuning, then a $1000 investment seems worth it, and 15-20 minutes does not seem like a bad trade off to take it out if it degrades street driving.

How many other track mods do we wish we could swap out that quickly for track and street (roll bars, seats, harnesses, air bags, slicks, 3.5° -4.0° camber settings, high front spring rates, brake pads, I mean, the list could go on and on). The DSC controller could be a win to swap out when you get some spare time back at home, when you feel like it and when you have 15 minutes. After doing it a few times, it will probably be more like 10 minutes.

Maybe one day we will get our own factory tuning engineer from Ford who moves on to make a bundle of money in DSC tuning . . . and then you can save yourself that ten minutes and even get improved drivability on the street.

 

[TeeLew]

That may be more of a comment on the GM base tuning more than the DSC. Keep in mind, the guy that's doing this was the same guy who did the initial calibration.

The facts are, the DSC is massively limited compared to BWI (OEM) software. I completely agree it can make a car faster on track. It is not a panacea. Regardless of what you do with it, you're using a street car damper and have that to deal with as well.

It's a cool idea, which is still in beta development a decade after the release and they haven't/won't do more. I'm not saying don't buy it. I'm saying know what you're buying.

 

[Rodpwnz]

Update for all - install date has been pushed back to Friday. Sorry for the delay!

 

[byronj]

Please report back on how it is. I have been interested in AJ's magneride front conversion kit, and I am curious how much the front springs change things, both on track and driving on the street.

As for the DSC, can you install it for the track and take it out for the street?

The GC set up shaved 3 seconds off my lap times.

The DSC controller can be installed and removed in a matter of minutes. I wouldnt do a DSC with other springs unless you want to do your own programming. They program it to work with FP or OE spings for the S550 platform.

I run a DSC tractive coilover set up and when we started tuning and asking DSC technical questions. They proved themselves fairly useless.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The GC set up shaved 3 seconds off my lap times.

Sorry, but what is GC set up?

 

[TeeLew]

The GC set up shaved 3 seconds off my lap times.

The DSC controller can be installed and removed in a matter of minutes. I wouldnt do a DSC with other springs unless you want to do your own programming. They program it to work with FP or OE spings for the S550 platform.

I run a DSC tractive coilover set up and when we started tuning and asking DSC technical questions. They proved themselves fairly useless.

The base tuning is complete garbage.

Tractive dampers are nice, but the valving they give you with them is not. You basically have no compression adjustment because of how the shim stack is built, which is almost too stupid to comment on...but not quite.

Like I said it is what it is and it's not going to be more.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The base tuning is complete garbage.

Tractive dampers are nice, but the valving they give you with them is not. You basically have no compression adjustment because of how the shim stack is built, which is almost too stupid to comment on...but not quite.

Like I said it is what it is and it's not going to be more.

Does it drop 3 seconds off the lap time or not? "Complete garbage" would not do that. 3 seconds is like going from 200 tw to racing slicks. If the answer is not, makes no difference, then, well, ok, garbage. Is that the case?

Is the GC set up something to do with DSC? I cannot decode what byronj was trying to communicate.

 

[TeeLew]

With the base tuning, it will go slower. This is the aspect I'm calling garbage. Tuned in some reasonable manner, I've had a couple guys up to 3 seconds faster.

The CAR wasn't 3 seconds faster. The car might have been 1/2 second faster. The big gains are with cars on stock springs. From Ford, the front spring is ridiculously soft for track duty. By jamming a ton of compression damping in the front, you can mitigate some of the entry oversteer problems and give the guy a lot more confidence while braking.

Recreational drivers are especially sensitive to entry stability problems. If you can get rid of the feeling you're going to spin every time you turn the wheel, good things happen on the stopwatch.

Having said this, the correct way to fix a lack of spring stiffness is to increase spring stiffness. When you put proper spring rates and ride heights on the car, now the entry oversteer is gone. Once you do this, it's really a matter of damping the wheel and chassis motions, not trying to induce handling traits with the dampers. In this scenario, the DSC can still be useful, but the time gains will be nothing like what it is on stock springs.

 

[byronj]

Does it drop 3 seconds off the lap time or not? "Complete garbage" would not do that. 3 seconds is like going from 200 tw to racing slicks. If the answer is not, makes no difference, then, well, ok, garbage. Is that the case?

Is the GC set up something to do with DSC? I cannot decode what byronj was trying to communicate.

The GC hybrid coil over set with GT350 Stock DSC and dampers shaved 3 seconds off my time. I was on FP springs and different aero before I installed the GC set up.

I would not use a DSC controller with that set up unless you want to program it for the spring rates and aero changes. IMHO its a waste of time and money.

DCS thinks and will tell you that their programming works for 90% of their customers. Which maybe it does. Then again that is for a stock car. I asked them how can they have the same controller for a Mustang GT/GT350/GT500? The answer was because it works.

With my new setup I called them asking about different spring rates for the tractive set up and as @TeeLew said. Its garbage. DSC tech support is not helpful with tunning. You're on your own.
I called the manufacturer that makes the dampers (forgot their names but very helpful) and found out what spring I could max out at with the current valve design. I am still testing and tuning it but with the new set up I have not shaved much time off my laps. Maybe next month at Sonoma I will have more info to report. I know I am going to have to re-valve the dampers to get where I want. I just didn't want to put more money into the set up before trying out for a year or so.

 

[byronj]

Sorry, but what is GC set up?

Ground Control - here is a link to their hybrid system like the AJ Hartman one.

2015+ Mustang S550 Adjustable Ride Height Kit

Ground Control S550 Adjustable Right Height Kit Ground Control Systems is now offering our Adjustable Ride Height Kit for the S550 chassis. This system is designed to work with your stock struts/shocks, as well as most aftermarket dampers. Using custom linear springs, we can include rates to...

groundcontrolstore.com

 

[Rodpwnz]

Alright folks - just got back from the shop....

At the suggestion of the resident mustang/shelby expert mechanic here in the SF bay area(Trent Musser), I did not install the AJ hartman coilover conversion kit up front.

Couple reasons I am OK with this:
1. I am already generally happy with the way the car rides on street and performs on track.
2. This is still a street driven car and want to maintain streetability.
3. I am changing camber, rotors, brakes, camber and tires before my next track day so a lot of variables that already could affect driving dynamics.
4. He suggested sway bars first over spring rate modifications to get the desired turn in response and for my use case.

Now I'm looking into sway bars - Trent suggested Steeda Competition kit. I would love adjustability, and perhaps having slightly above my current PP1 setup at the softest setting. I don't want to end up with sway bars so stiff that I'm lifting a wheel often.

 

[TeeLew]

 

[bnight]

Alright folks - just got back from the shop....

At the suggestion of the resident mustang/shelby expert mechanic here in the SF bay area(Trent Musser), I did not install the AJ hartman coilover conversion kit up front.

Couple reasons I am OK with this:
1. I am already generally happy with the way the car rides on street and performs on track.
2. This is still a street driven car and want to maintain streetability.
3. I am changing camber, rotors, brakes, camber and tires before my next track day so a lot of variables that already could affect driving dynamics.
4. He suggested sway bars first over spring rate modifications to get the desired turn in response and for my use case.

Now I'm looking into sway bars - Trent suggested Steeda Competition kit. I would love adjustability, and perhaps having slightly above my current PP1 setup at the softest setting. I don't want to end up with sway bars so stiff that I'm lifting a wheel often.

Don't listen to people that don't drive cars on track. The 400 lbs springs are on the softer side you need more spring in an MagneRide car I have driven a Mach 1 car on the track and it was soft. If you want results on track you need better springs that's the key to fast lap times. You can mod the car with camber and SwayBars and the car is fun to drive but ultimately slow. Springs are the key to fast lap times. Regarding Sway Bars I run the Steeda Front Sway bar with the OEM PP1 rear bar and it's working great for me the car is super controlled but I also have 500 lbs springs.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Alright folks - just got back from the shop....

At the suggestion of the resident mustang/shelby expert mechanic here in the SF bay area(Trent Musser), I did not install the AJ hartman coilover conversion kit up front.

Couple reasons I am OK with this:
1. I am already generally happy with the way the car rides on street and performs on track.
2. This is still a street driven car and want to maintain streetability.
3. I am changing camber, rotors, brakes, camber and tires before my next track day so a lot of variables that already could affect driving dynamics.
4. He suggested sway bars first over spring rate modifications to get the desired turn in response and for my use case.

Now I'm looking into sway bars - Trent suggested Steeda Competition kit. I would love adjustability, and perhaps having slightly above my current PP1 setup at the softest setting. I don't want to end up with sway bars so stiff that I'm lifting a wheel often.

Was his suggestion to not install the AJ Hartman coilover conversion kit up front for now because you have already introduced a lot of variables, or was his suggestion never to install them because in his estimation your current springs are great for tracking?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Don't listen to people that don't drive cars on track.

I don't know the guy, but there are track cars all over a google search for him. Do you know for sure that he does not drive Mustangs on track?

 

[TeeLew]

I don't know the guy, but there are track cars all over a google search for him. Do you know for sure that he does not drive Mustangs on track?

Doctors and Mechanics often prescribe the treatment which is best for themselves, not their patrons. I'm pretty sure I talked to this guy once. I think they'll make a great couple. Enjoy.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Doctors and Mechanics often prescribe the treatment which is best for themselves, not their patrons. I'm pretty sure I talked to this guy once. I think they'll make a great couple. Enjoy.

I don't even know what this post means or why you are getting pissy.

 

[bnight]

I don't know the guy, but there are track cars all over a google search for him. Do you know for sure that he does not drive Mustangs on track?

Even if he does the fact is The OEM springs are not good for track. Ask yourself why the DHR cars run at least 700 lbs front springs ?

 

[Gunslinger55]

Seems the gist of this is that magnaride cars can compensate for spring rate by increasing compression. Which allows the car to be comfy on the street as well for dual purpose marketing considerations. Not optimal obviously for best track performance. This is pretty common sense i would think from a technical standpoint.

So the question is what do you want? I want a dedicated track car that is possibly still street legal and fast. So that means lots of modifications. What kind of modifications? Well increasing front spring rate seems to be very high on the list. Multiple ways of doing it. Some cheaper some pricier and better. No surprise there. Sway bars and dampeners, aero bigger tires and more horsepower. What is the winning combination? And cost?

For a stockish dark horse HP it seems to work pretty good they way the engineers designed it but does have fairly soft springs compensated by the magnaride dampeners. For a “newish” car still under warranty i am trying to figure out how to toe the line one mods and performance. At some point i’ll probably ignore warranty considerations on this car but for now do select mods.

I really think the best solution for me is a dedicated track car but everyone has their own situation. Especially if you want to race

I seem to spend money like a drunken sailor but i’m interested in getting the best performance out of this car reasonably while looking for a dedicated track car (second guessing the TA2 car i’m going to look at) but looking can’t hurt. Renewing the racing license i let expire so obviously i need a race car……………………….

Interesting to see all the different opinions on here of how to get the job done

 

[Gunslinger55]

Don't listen to people that don't drive cars on track. The 400 lbs springs are on the softer side you need more spring in an MagneRide car I have driven a Mach 1 car on the track and it was soft. If you want results on track you need better springs that's the key to fast lap times. You can mod the car with camber and SwayBars and the car is fun to drive but ultimately slow. Springs are the key to fast lap times. Regarding Sway Bars I run the Steeda Front Sway bar with the OEM PP1 rear bar and it's working great for me the car is super controlled but I also have 500 lbs springs.

what springs and specifically which sway bar they have several?