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S197 pushing badly

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RayR

16
8
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Woodbine, MD
Hey everyone, could use some quick advice.
I run an 08 with an Aluminator XS. The car has Multi-Matic dampers similar to those found on an FR500C. Front sway bar is 1.375”,
Rear bar is .71”, front springs are 500 pounds, rear springs are 325 pounds, tires are Hancock Ventus, semi slick, 315/30/18, Cortex watts link set on the lowest position.
My problem is the car pushes like crazy. I have a race tomorrow morning and I’m trying to get some suggestions to either reduce the car pushing and possibly introduce some oversteer or try and get some more weight on the front end.I have I have a .90” rear bar that I could put on it or I was thinking possibly lowering the front right height in an attempt to get more grip. Any thoughts either way? Or other possible suggestions?
Much appreciated
 
What phase of the corner is the push happening --- entry, mid, exit, or all?

Have you tried changing the Watts link pivot height before? That's probably the easiest thing to change, and raising it should promote oversteer. However, I'd be very wary of going into a race after making a blind change.
 
Thx for responding; I will try that.
I have (2) races tomorrow, so if it doesn’t work, I can Always go back
 
RayR said:
Hey everyone, could use some quick advice.
I run an 08 with an Aluminator XS. The car has Multi-Matic dampers similar to those found on an FR500C. Front sway bar is 1.375”,
Rear bar is .71”, front springs are 500 pounds, rear springs are 325 pounds, tires are Hancock Ventus, semi slick, 315/30/18, Cortex watts link set on the lowest position.
My problem is the car pushes like crazy. I have a race tomorrow morning and I’m trying to get some suggestions to either reduce the car pushing and possibly introduce some oversteer or try and get some more weight on the front end.I have I have a .90” rear bar that I could put on it or I was thinking possibly lowering the front right height in an attempt to get more grip. Any thoughts either way? Or other possible suggestions?
Much appreciated
Click to expand...
Raise the watts link.
 
Thanks for all the responses, 2 races - P1 and P2 in class today. Raising the watts link definitely helped, really need to get this car to stop pushing, had the power to walk everything on the straights just lost time to the Beemers and the Porsche's in the twisties.
 
I would look very closely at the front end for a bind or loose parts. If you disconnect the links on the front sway bar does it stay in place or does it fall? Bushing bind is the root cause of a lot of weird handling gremlins. If all checks out stiffen the rear springs and add that rear sway bar. What hole is the front sway bar in? Full stiff? Full soft? or in the middle?
 
Fabman said:
If you disconnect the links on the front sway bar does it stay in place or does it fall? Bushing bind is the root cause of a lot of weird handling gremlins.
Click to expand...
This. Every aftermarket urethane swaybar bushing I've used has been too tight when originally installed, even if supplied by the same company with the swaybar and bracket in a kit. Every. Single. One.

In most cases, it's due to the bushing being too "tall" for the bracket, not that the hole is too small for the bar. Depending on how bad the fit is, I use washers to shim up the bracket as a coarse adjustment, and remove material on the "flat" of the bushing with 80-120 sandpaper as a fine adjustment. One way or another, I get it so that when the brackets are torqued down, the bar can be rotated easily with my pinky.
 
cold pressures set to 35 at all 4
hot pressures between 32-34 except LF-37
LF tire wear indicators worn smooth, all other tires have acceptable wear.
Track is predominantly RH turns
 
I made these aluminum spacers to eliminate the bind.

IMG_8520.jpegIMG_8519.jpeg
IMG_8521.jpeg
 
As Tee Lew mentioned, a lot depends how you drive as well. I know when people drive my car they say it very strong understeer (running with out a rear bar etc). For me at least, Rotating the car in the corner with the brakes is key. Then early power on exit as the car lines up. Also you did not mention if you have a torsen?

Am a bit confused when you say your tire pressures cold are at 35psi, and your hot pressures are set lower?
 
Mad Hatter said:
As Tee Lew mentioned, a lot depends how you drive as well. I know when people drive my car they say it very strong understeer (running with out a rear bar etc). For me at least, Rotating the car in the corner with the brakes is key. Then early power on exit as the car lines up. Also you did not mention if you have a torsen?

Am a bit confused when you say your tire pressures cold are at 35psi, and your hot pressures are set lower?
Click to expand...

My guess is that was a typo and was meant to be 25.
 
Mad Hatter said:
As Tee Lew mentioned, a lot depends how you drive as well. I know when people drive my car they say it very strong understeer (running with out a rear bar etc). For me at least, Rotating the car in the corner with the brakes is key. Then early power on exit as the car lines up. Also you did not mention if you have a torsen?
Click to expand...
100%. This sounds completely counterintuitive, but you can pretty much tell how fast a driver is by now much understeer they want in the car. The faster the driver, the more secure they need the rear of the car. They create the rotation on their own with their feet. Give them a better rear and they'll generally challenge it more.

Obviously, you can tip it over where the front is just dead. I'm assuming we aren't hurting the front to gain balance, but helping the rear.
 
Last edited:
TeeLew said:
100%. This sounds completely counterintuitive, but you can pretty much tell how fast a drive is by now much understeer they want in the car. The faster the driver, the more secure they need the rear of the car. They create the rotation on their own with their feet. Give them a better rear and they'll generally challenge it more.

Obviously, you can tip it over where the front is just dead. I'm assuming we aren't hurting the front to gain balance, but helping the rear.
Click to expand...
Interesting - I've always heard faster drivers want a sharper front end because you can manage the rear end with steering and the pedals....but what you're saying is backwards, right?
 
honeybadger said:
Interesting - I've always heard faster drivers want a sharper front end because you can manage the rear end with steering and the pedals....but what you're saying is backwards, right?
Click to expand...
Yep, that's the accepted logic. It's not exactly wrong, but it misses the point. The 'Pro' will naturally have a sharper front end because of how he drives, not because of the settings on the car. If you do end up with a car that's genuinely loose, the pro will slow down less than the 'Am', but neither will be running at their best.

However, if you send a Pro out in a car and then an Am in the same car, if the Pro says the car has a good balance, the Am will report understeer. There are exceptions to my rule, but they're rare.

The differences start at the corner setup before either even hits the brake. The Pro will position he car better while braking later and harder, which induces more more pitch. He'll carry the brakes later into the corner keeps the load on the front tires. This will produce rotation earlier in the corner and means the driver will be asking less of the front of the car later in the corner.
 
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