S197 help/suggestions

[Mad Hatter]

That would be without me, but with 1/2 tank.... So add another 190lbs, heavy helmet!

gads... that would be 3655lbs!!

 

[MX621]

No driver/gear/cool suit

 

[Fabman]

That would be without me, but with 1/2 tank.... So add another 190lbs, heavy helmet!

gads... that would be 3655lbs!!

At nationals they weighed me with about 12 gal of fuel, cool suit ice box-no ice and my fat self (#260) at #3650.
I know I'm at least that wet or more....

 

[MX621]

Small update. Tried 350 lb rear spring, maxed castor and lower pressures as recommended. Car is getting faster, almost a second. Still more understeer than I’d prefer. I’ll try 400 or 425lbs next see how that works. But it getting closer.

also: this thing is absolutely destroying rear pads like nothing I’ve ever seen/driven. Currently dtc60’s up front, dtc 30’s out back. It does have the Race ABS module. I see no issue with the rear calipers/slide pins, zero drag on anything. This normal? Byproduct of the race abs?
Thanks
Phil

 

[Fabman]

Small update. Tried 350 lb rear spring, maxed castor and lower pressures as recommended. Car is getting faster, almost a second. Still more understeer than I’d prefer. I’ll try 400 or 425lbs next see how that works. But it getting closer.

also: this thing is absolutely destroying rear pads like nothing I’ve ever seen/driven. Currently dtc60’s up front, dtc 30’s out back. It does have the Race ABS module. I see no issue with the rear calipers/slide pins, zero drag on anything. This normal? Byproduct of the race abs?
Thanks
Phil

Is it possible that you stability control is coming on? That's usually the culprit when it comes to rear pad wear. I had mine turned off in the tune long ago to avoid this.

 

[Fabman]

See if you can get your hands on an 18mm rear bar....try that and also #400's. (one than the other, then both together)

 

[MX621]

Is it possible that you stability control is coming on? That's usually the culprit when it comes to rear pad wear. I had mine turned off in the tune long ago to avoid this.

I don’t feel any type of stability control working. And I believe I’ve read the race abs disables all that. Maybe I’m wrong

edit:
Found this on TMO regarding the race abs hopefully it’s accurate:

“The ABS electronics module is programmed to completely turn off Traction Control and Vehicle Stability Control – ABS is retained. With the module installed neither Traction Control nor Vehicle Stability Control can be turned on. Reportedly the front/rear brake bias has been tweaked to give more braking to the rear brakes. Also the threshold to initiate the ABS system has been increased to better accommodate sticky racing tires. The quantitative changes in brake bias and the ABS initiation threshold are generally not known outside of Ford Racing / Performance.”

 

[Fabman]

I don’t feel any type of stability control working. And I believe I’ve read the race abs disables all that. Maybe I’m wrong

Not sure, others may chime in. My car has no nannies and no ABS. Someone here will know.

 

[xr7]

I don’t feel any type of stability control working. And I believe I’ve read the race abs disables all that. Maybe I’m wrong

edit:
Found this on TMO regarding the race abs hopefully it’s accurate:

“The ABS electronics module is programmed to completely turn off Traction Control and Vehicle Stability Control – ABS is retained. With the module installed neither Traction Control nor Vehicle Stability Control can be turned on. Reportedly the front/rear brake bias has been tweaked to give more braking to the rear brakes. Also the threshold to initiate the ABS system has been increased to better accommodate sticky racing tires. The quantitative changes in brake bias and the ABS initiation threshold are generally not known outside of Ford Racing / Performance.”

Not sure how it can affect brake bias until the ABS is activated. The bias is pretty much determined by pad selection and caliper piston area compared to master cyl piston area. Change in rotor diameter.

 

[Fabman]

Not sure how it can affect brake bias until the ABS is activated. The bias is pretty much determined by pad selection and caliper piston area compared to master cyl piston area. Change in rotor diameter.

The traction control adds rear brake automatically when it doesn't like the flavor of aggressive driving and it cooks rear pads/rotors/calipers....that's well established.
The question is...is this what's happening to this particular car? Is he manually turning the traction control off each time he hits the track? There is a button on the dash for that.


EDIT: I see the module disables the traction and stability control...after that, I got nothing.

 

[Fabman]

Okay, I have @Albino500 here and he's calling BS on that ABS module info you posted....where did you find that exactly? Who posted it? Can you provide the link?

 

[xr7]

The traction control adds rear brake automatically when it doesn't like the flavor of aggressive driving and it cooks rear pads/rotors/calipers....that's well established.
The question is...is this what's happening to this particular car? Is he manually turning the traction control off each time he hits the track? There is a button on the dash for that.


EDIT: I see the module disables the traction and stability control...after that, I got nothing.

What I meant was if you have the stability control and traction control turned off at that point the hardware is the brake bias.

 

[Fabman]

What I meant was if you have the stability control and traction control turned off at that point the hardware is the brake bias.

Correct, which is why I'm wondering if he is turning it off manually since the ABS module does NOT automatically turn off the traction control etc.
The Module ONLY affects the ABS, at least that is what I am being told by someone who I trust to know. Maybe someone else has additional info.

I was actually responding to the following post by @MX621 :

“The ABS electronics module is programmed to completely turn off Traction Control and Vehicle Stability Control – ABS is retained. With the module installed neither Traction Control nor Vehicle Stability Control can be turned on. Reportedly the front/rear brake bias has been tweaked to give more braking to the rear brakes. Also the threshold to initiate the ABS system has been increased to better accommodate sticky racing tires. The quantitative changes in brake bias and the ABS initiation threshold are generally not known outside of Ford Racing / Performance.”

 

[MX621]

I will say that the dash info says “ service traction system “, “ service advance track “ which from what I read is accurate with the race abs .

 

[Fabman]

I will say that the dash info says “ service traction system “, “ service advance track “ which from what I read is accurate with the race abs .

Do you hit the traction control button before you go on track?
When I was drag racing my car with the automatic you couldn't do much of a burnout, the rear brakes would hold the motor back.
I had to hit the traction control button before every run to get a good burnout.
Also when I first started tracking it with the 6 speed. The rear brakes would keep trying to control wheel speed and would burn up pads fast.

 

[MX621]

I don’t have a traction control button it’s all been removed. Car will spin the tires if provoked easily with zero traction control.

More searching confirms the race abs is brutal on rear brakes and it disables the traction and stability systems.
seems to be a common complaint. Maybe I need to experiment with diff pad compounds.

 

[Fabman]

I don’t have a traction control button it’s all been removed. Car will spin the tires if provoked easily with zero traction control.

More searching confirms the race abs is brutal on rear brakes and it disables the traction and stability systems.
seems to be a common complaint. Maybe I need to experiment with diff pad compounds.

I think there is more to the story, we need someone with more practical knowledge to chime in here...
@steveespo @Albino500 anyone? Anyone?

 

[ajaquilante]

What is "brutal" on rear brakes? How often are you putting in rear pads?

 

[MX621]

What is "brutal" on rear brakes? How often are you putting in rear pads?

Ok maybe brutal in comparison to what I’m used to. This last set of rear pads lasted
Two 30 min sprint races and 8- DE sessions. So Roughly 3.5 hours or track time. To put it that way doesn’t seem to bad. I’m just used to rears lasting significantly longer than the fronts, not vice versa. Luckily there pretty cheap

 

[Mad Hatter]

Ok maybe brutal in comparison to what I’m used to. This last set of rear pads lasted
Two 30 min sprint races and 8- DE sessions. So Roughly 3.5 hours or track time. To put it that way doesn’t seem to bad. I’m just used to rears lasting significantly longer than the fronts, not vice versa. Luckily there pretty cheap

This has to be a traction control issue or some such problem. The rears should last several times longer then the fronts. I put a set of Pagid rsl29 pads in the rear and they have over 7 track hours on them with plenty life left still.