S650 Cliff II Build Thread Profile - S650 Mustangs

[Rodpwnz]

Yes, it was me - thanks for the shout out!

I am a high intermediate, low advanced pace driver and at thunderhill raceway with 85F ambient, transmission temp was 190-200F range after 20 minute sessions.

I believe S550 10r80 cooling is a bit simpler than S650 - if you were able to pull up diagrams of the S650 cooling loop, I would be more than happy to chat about it. DM me if you would like to have a call.

Here is my very long and detailed thread on my custom 10r80 cooling project and solution

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I have not yet figured out the way the fluid flows on the S650 from the transmission to the heat exchanger down in front of the transmission and the cooler up between the radiator and the air conditioning condenser. There is a thermostat. They might be on two different loops controlled by the thermostat, but I just do not know.

 

[robbgoesracing]

So this is the parts diagram for the PP pack version - I haven't been able to get underneath the car and look myself but if I recall correctly, mine does not have the front cooler.

I do have a thought of maybe using the other lower side vent opposite the engine oil cooler and setting up something there - that way not blocking anything with another radiator - but would have to see how that work.

 

[Rodpwnz]

View attachment 111675
So this is the parts diagram for the PP pack version - I haven't been able to get underneath the car and look myself but if I recall correctly, mine does not have the front cooler.

I do have a thought of maybe using the other lower side vent opposite the engine oil cooler and setting up something there - that way not blocking anything with another radiator - but would have to see how that work.

Hmmm S550 loop is very similar in regards to the purple trans cooler hard lines and the front 7A095A cooler. I was going to explain it here via typing, but felt it would be easier to explain my understanding and my advice via screen recording link:

Also, I mispoke in the video - I used an improved racing FSM165, not FSC160.

I don't know the differences between performance pack and non performance pack transmission cooling on the S650. Maybe the external thermostat reloops back to the trans on non-PP instead of going to the cooler like on PP cars?

Either way, I would probably figure out what kind of connection is at the end of that purple hard line coming from the transmission, and then use an AN adapter to connect custom AN cooling lines in PTFE or Nylon covered CPE rubber lines. Then put the FSM thermostat along the lines, and connect them to wherever you mount your new trans cooler. I would suggest avoid infront of the radiator if you have space and airflow in front of the wheel/fender.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Also, I mispoke in the video - I used an improved racing FSM165, not FSC160.

That's the FSM-185, not FSM-165.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

View attachment 111675
So this is the parts diagram for the PP pack version - I haven't been able to get underneath the car and look myself but if I recall correctly, mine does not have the front cooler.

I do have a thought of maybe using the other lower side vent opposite the engine oil cooler and setting up something there - that way not blocking anything with another radiator - but would have to see how that work.

That is the parts diagram for the S65 Dark Horse and GT PP.

The bottom heat exchanger, 7A095B, I believe is heated up with engine coolant.

The cooler mounted in front of the radiator, 7A095A is obviously just a cooler. If you do not have that, then the transmission fluid does not really have a way to cool off.

What I can't figure out is how the fluid flows. I suspect it has a thermostat directing it to the B heat exchanger when cold and then the A cooler when hot, but I do not know for sure.

The 7H322 part, up toward the top of the picture, is an automatic transmission cooler control valve. I believe it does basically the same thing as the Improved Racing inline oil thermostat. Here is what it looks like:




Same in and out 4 port configuration.

But I don't know how the routing works with the B heat exchanger.

 

[Rodpwnz]

That's the FSM-185, not FSM-165.

I believe I linked the main FSM page, where you can then click a button to customize and choose the inner thermostat temp. Based on the thermostat temp you choose, the part number will change, hence FSM-165 for 165F, and FSM-145 for 145F.

That is the parts diagram for the S65 Dark Horse and GT PP.

The bottom heat exchanger, 7A095B, I believe is heated up with engine coolant.

The cooler mounted in front of the radiator, 7A095A is obviously just a cooler. If you do not have that, then the transmission fluid does not really have a way to cool off.

What I can't figure out is how the fluid flows. I suspect it has a thermostat directing it to the B heat exchanger when cold and then the A cooler when hot, but I do not know for sure.

The 7H322 part, up toward the top of the picture, is an automatic transmission cooler control valve. I believe it does basically the same thing as the Improved Racing inline oil thermostat. Here is what it looks like:

View attachment 111682 View attachment 111683


Same in and out 4 port configuration.

But I don't know how the routing works with the B heat exchanger.

Yes, exactly - in my video I go over most of the components, but I do not know exactly how fluid flows in the coolant heat exchanger B. I'm guessing trans fluid comes out from the transmission, flows through the heat exchanger, then re-enters the line going towards the external thermostat. The heat exchanger B essentially replaces a section of the purple cooler lines going out from the transmission. We can see the parallel purple cooler lines for the reverse flow of fluid back to the transmission along side the heat exhanger B in the diagram.

What I really have no idea about is what happens once the fluid hits that external thermostat in the NON-PP cars? Is there a U-pipe that sends the fluid back the other way through the reverse direction cooler lines?

Either way, if you want to improve your 10r80 cooling, I wouldn't mess with the exhanger B, or that side of the cooler lines. I would find out what attachment point is used on the OEM external thermostat, and then use an adapter to replace the OEM thermostat with an aftermarket one set to a slightly lower temp, and then fabricate custom cooler lines from there to a new cooler and location of your choosing.

The interesting part of the S650 trans cooler setup is that you are tied to the radiator cooling capacity and coolant temps. I believe the OEM radiator uses a 190F thermostat so even with an external 165F thermostat and big trans cooler, you are to some(unknown) degree tied to the coolant heat and thermostat on the coolant side. If you wanted to truly keep temps lower on the trans and in part remove the transmission heat load from the radiator, you would have to decouple them completely. There are others that sell AN adapter fittings for the 10r80 transmission housing so you could fab new lines straight from the transmission itself and get rid of all OEM transmission cooler lines, but now you have to figure out what to do with the radiator tubing that was going to and from that heat exchanger B.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I believe I linked the main FSM page, where you can then click a button to customize and choose the inner thermostat temp. Based on the thermostat temp you choose, the part number will change, hence FSM-165 for 165F, and FSM-145 for 145F.
View attachment 111685


Yes, exactly - in my video I go over most of the components, but I do not know exactly how fluid flows in the coolant heat exchanger B. I'm guessing trans fluid comes out from the transmission, flows through the heat exchanger, then re-enters the line going towards the external thermostat. The heat exchanger B essentially replaces a section of the purple cooler lines going out from the transmission. We can see the parallel purple cooler lines for the reverse flow of fluid back to the transmission along side the heat exhanger B in the diagram.

What I really have no idea about is what happens once the fluid hits that external thermostat in the NON-PP cars? Is there a U-pipe that sends the fluid back the other way through the reverse direction cooler lines?

Either way, if you want to improve your 10r80 cooling, I wouldn't mess with the exhanger B, or that side of the cooler lines. I would find out what attachment point is used on the OEM external thermostat, and then use an adapter to replace the OEM thermostat with an aftermarket one set to a slightly lower temp, and then fabricate custom cooler lines from there to a new cooler and location of your choosing.

The interesting part of the S650 trans cooler setup is that you are tied to the radiator cooling capacity and coolant temps. I believe the OEM radiator uses a 190F thermostat so even with an external 165F thermostat and big trans cooler, you are to some(unknown) degree tied to the coolant heat and thermostat on the coolant side. If you wanted to truly keep temps lower on the trans and in part remove the transmission heat load from the radiator, you would have to decouple them completely. There are others that sell AN adapter fittings for the 10r80 transmission housing so you could fab new lines straight from the transmission itself and get rid of all OEM transmission cooler lines, but now you have to figure out what to do with the radiator tubing that was going to and from that heat exchanger B.

Excellent post.

If I could figure out the fluid routing and temperature of that thermostat from Ford (I see you said 190°), I bet we could figure out how to do something similar in the S650 to what you did to the S550.

Maybe a lower temperature thermostat (165? 145?) and a larger cooler placed in the same location as the stock one, between the radiator and the a/c condenser?

Maybe bypass the heat exchanger altogether. I need to know more . . .

A couple of questions. You have an S550. Does it have this same thermostat, 7H322? Does the S550 have the heat exchanger down in front of the transmission, the 7A095B? Does the S650 need the transmission pan dropped and remove some internal thermostat like you did to your car?

Cliff II, SORRY

This is your build thread.

I copied some of this discussion and posted it in the S650 Cooling thread, where we can continue discussing it.

Apologies for posting all of this in your Build Thread. I was not paying attention to where it was.

Cooling thread:

Cooling Modifications

I did not see a thread for S650 and cooling modifications, so I thought maybe I would start one.If you have made modifications to your S650 for extra cooling (engine, transmission, differential), please let the rest of us know what you did here and how effective it was.Thank you.

trackmustangsonline.com

 

[Rodpwnz]

Yeah, sorry Cliff! I'll respond to your post in the other thread @Junkyard Dog