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Does NASA allow 5/6-Point Belts w/ Harness Bar in HDPE

I'm planning to do my first HDPE event with NASA in March. I reviewed the Tech form and it does not mention that a roll bar is required when using 5 or 6 point harnesses (only approved seats). I've never had a problem with my setup with any other organizations but didn't want to show up with my belts and harness bar and fail tech.

Has anyone run 5/6 point harnesses with a harness bar in NASA HDPE or have specific knowledge as to whether it's permitted or not?

So we don't get on the topis of whether it's safe or not - I understand that some people don't feel harness bars are safe for use with 5/6 point belts. My feelings and those of many others have been expressed in other posts, so please refrain from commenting on whether you feel it's safe or not.
 

Bill Pemberton

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Great question and be interested to find out the answer as was seriously planning to do the same thing with my Boss. Hope we hear from some guys running NASA Time Trials and SCCA Time Trials.
 

Sesshomurai

From the NASA CCR[1]. Although I think for HPDE, these rules are relaxed since its not a race situation.

11.4.8 Seatbelts and Harnesses
The seatbelts should be in good condition. No damage may be present on the seatbelts and they must be the
factory configuration. Any harness or any restraint system, other than factory stock, shall conform to CCR
section #15.5, in all respects except for the expiration regulations. Harnesses that are expired for racing may
be used providing that they are in at least very good condition. The use of a lap belt without any shoulder
restraint is not permitted. Passenger seatbelts must meet the same minimum requirements per the CCR as the
driver seatbelts if being used by a passenger. Note-passenger equipment need not match the installed
equipment on the driver’s side. See Section 11.3 for more about four point harnesses. Stock / OEM belts
should not be worn with hard shell, fixed back racing seats. Those seats should have a racing harness.

15.5 Driver restraint system
(See diagram at end of section)
1. All vehicles should have a five (5), six (6), or seven (7) point seat belt system. Arm restraints are
required in open cars and cars with: Open T-tops, Open Targa tops, missing moon/sun roofs, or glass
moon/sun roofs.
2. A five (5) point system consists of: a lap belt, two (2) shoulder belts, and anti-submarine strap.
3. A six (6) point system is recommended for cars where the driver is seated in an upright (to thirty (30)
degrees) or a semi-reclining position. It consists of two (2) anti-submarine belts in addition to lap and
shoulder belts.
4. A seven (7) point system is recommended for seats with more than thirty (30) degrees of incline.
5. The material of all straps should be in new or perfect condition. The buckles should be metal quick
release. There should be a single point of release for all belts.
6. The shoulder harness should be mounted behind the driver and above a line drawn downward from the
shoulder point at an angle of no more than twenty (20) degrees with the horizontal.
7. The seat, seat holes, and attachments to the seat are not permissible “harness guides” for compliance
with the angle requirement. Only specific harness guide bars, or parts of the chassis or the cage are
allowed to be used for this purpose. The guide bar, if used, should not present a sharp edge to the belt.
It should provide as much area of support as possible to distribute the load.
8. Only separate shoulder straps are permitted. “H” type belts are allowed. “Y” type belts are not allowed.
Each shoulder strap should have an independent mounting point.
9. All mounting hardware should be SAE grade five (5) or better. Large diameter mounting washers should
be used to spread the load. Bolting through floor panels etc. is not acceptable without required washers.
10. Certain belt sets are made for certain purposes, such as for use with a specific head and neck restraint
device. The driver is responsible for ensuring the use of the proper belt set for his/her given application.
In addition, all belts should meet at least one of the following:
A) SFI Specification 16.1 or 16.5 and shall bear a dated label of no more than two (2) years old. At
least one date label is required on belt sets.
B) A restraint system meeting FIA spec #8853/1985, 8853/98, or D-###.T/98, including amendment
1/92 may be used. FIA certified belts have a label that shows an expiration date. The belts cannot
be used past December 31st of the year shown on the label. At least one date label is required on
belt sets.
11. All drivers should take care to ensure that their belts are properly worn, adjusted, and latched. It is the
driver’s responsibility to assure that harnesses are installed in compliance with manufacturer’s
instructions for the harness as well as their head / neck restraint.
12. Any driver involved in a high impact crash shall send all of their safety belts back to the manufacturer for
inspection, re-webbing if necessary, and re-certification before they may be used again in competition.
Proof of re-certification is the driver’s responsibility.
13. All belts should be threaded in compliance with manufacturer’s instructions. An example of one type of
threading instruction set appears at end of this section.

[1] http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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The Northeast chapter of NASA has no issues with a 6 pt and a harness bar. They will check the date on your belts.

If you run a HANS they may question 3" shoulder belts if you have them. In the past I've had to show them documentation from Schroth that states that the 3" shoulder belts are approved for HANS use. I use 3" shoulder belts because if I have someone in the passenger seat I don't know if they will have a HANS or not, so 3" covers both possibilities.

If you have a 4 pt system they like to see ASM (anti-submarining) shoulder belts, harness bar or not.

-Peye
 
Thanks Pete - I will likely be contacting you to order the belts we PM'd about a couple weeks ago. Any specials this week? :)

I will be starting the season with NASA Mid-Atlantic at VIR and will likely be at many of the NASA NE events this year. See you at the track!
 

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