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FL820S FL500S

Anyone figure out the difference in these yet. I forgot to look at these at the dealer the other day. None of the other parts stores have the 500S. My friend ordered the Ford Racing filter and it is a version of the 820S. I assume the difference is like the old FL-1A and FL-400, the 400 was a shorter version of the 1A. If the 500 is a shorter filter then it would be better using the 820S but any other reason I will look to replace with the 500.
 
This was discussed a couple of months ago but I can't remember what the outcome was.
 
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As far as difference between the two, I don't know. However, Ford racing states that the FRPP version of the 820S is interchangeable with the 500S for the Coyote. Therefore, I've decided to use the FRPP 820S on the Boss.

'Can be used with many FL-500 applications':
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=7567

That is for the individual filter. If you look at the link for a case of 12 filters it says 'Fits 4.6L and TiVCT 5.0L'
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=7703

I don't know what the difference between the 820 and the 500 is, however, I do know that the FRPP 820 has substantially more filter media than a standard 820 does.
 
OK, I went to the dealer. The 820S is a lot fatter but a bit shorter then the 500S. It looks like it has more surface area and therefor would provide more cooling but that is the only difference from the outside. The O ring and threads look the same, I can only assume the filter inside is the same material. I asked them if the book is calling for a 500S and we use a 820S or HP 820S (there is no HP 500S) then will that have an adverse effect on a warranty claim for some type of motor failure. The SM said it would be a good idea to call Ford Racing and find out so I did, they had no clue about warranty but did say the 820S fits just fine.

While it may seem like it at time Ford does not do things for no reason. They call for a 500S for some reason and I can not find out why? Before I use a 820S and have a warranty problem later I would like to get an answer on this, the SM told me he would check into it.
 
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Part of me wonders if this is just an effort to consolidate the number of different parts Ford dealers (and owners, and the assembly line) keep around on the shelves.

I have a feeling they realized that the FL-500 worked just fine in the 5.0L, and since the 3.7L calls for the FL-500, it streamlines maintenance. As a 2011+ Mustang pulls into the service bay, nobody has to think twice about what filter to select. It's going to be an FL-500, no matter if it's a V6, 5.0 or a Boss (of course the Shelby calls for the 820, which somewhat defeats my argument, but the Shelby is also a much smaller part of the production pie compared to the rest of Mustang sales).

The 5.0L is mildly based off of the old modular line, which exclusively used the 820 (from the 4.6L to the 6.8L V10). I have a feeling that either filter works fine. The FL-500 is more convenient, the FL-820 is larger (and possibly filters better, but I can't prove that).

An additional consideration to make from the FRPP parts bin, is that the 5.0L 'power pack' includes the FRPP version of the 820.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=12345
If anything, I think that the 820 is not only compatible with the 302, but probably filters better than an FL-500. Again, nothing I can prove, just what I am inferring from multiple sources.
 
I agree with all but the reason for maybe switching to the 500 because of the V6, I would like to find out for sure about the other things you said as I am thinking along these lines. I am not sure calling for the 500 would be for the reason you explained, the 820S is so widely use that that switching it IMHO would have the opposite effect then making the techs life easier?
 
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Honestly, I could be totally wrong. It is just my hunch. If you find out anything concrete, let us know. I'd be curious to know myself.
 
Waiting on the dealer's SM to get back to me, I will let everyone know. Like I said they do things for a reason, cost is one of them and may have something to do with this. Ford was very specific about the oil, then to use a filter that is smaller/thinner does not make much sense. I know cars are very different then years ago but a bigger filter would seem to make sense since they are saying you can go 10,000 miles on a oil change.

No easy answer here.
 
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If you road track your car you should change the oil after every event. If you drag race you might be able to go a little longer i am not sure as i am not a drag racer. If you drive as little as I do it would take 5 years to get 10k on the car. I'll change the oil at least once a year in any case.
 
I think you can do more than 1 driving school, which typically only gives you 90 mins of track time including warmup and cool down laps, before changing your oil. If your tracking your car, I would change your oil every 3 schools or 2K miles. Today's synthetic oils are more durable than yesterdays mineral base motor oil.
 
BossJockey said:
I think you can do more than 1 driving school, which typically only gives you 90 mins of track time including warmup and cool down laps, before changing your oil. If your tracking your car, I would change your oil every 3 schools or 3K miles. Today's synthetic oils are more durable than yesterdays mineral base motor oil.
Good to know. I changed my oil after my first track day but that was because I had just completed the 1000 mile break-in then did over 200 miles on track (2 hrs 15 min) so wanted to get that first oil change done. Then I did 3 more track days plus daily driving for about 1300 miles total (400 on track) and changed it again. Any idea what a reasonable schedule would be? I know the Boss Owners Supplement says change oil after every time your car is subjected to performance/comptetition conditions, but that seems a bit excessive. I'm thinking if I changed it after every two track weekends roughly 4-5 track days? Since I go at least once a month, the street miles would be 1k-2k max between these intervals.
 
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cloud9 said:
... I know the Boss Owners Supplement says change oil after every time your car is subjected to performance/comptetition conditions, but that seems a bit excessive. .....

I think Ford knows what they are talking about. having been involved in road racing for 30+ year I'll go with Ford's recommendation. In our historic CanAm car we changed 3 gallons of synthetic oil after every week end. Pay me now or pay me later.
 
cloud9 said:
Good to know. I changed my oil after my first track day but that was because I had just completed the 1000 mile break-in then did over 200 miles on track (2 hrs 15 min) so wanted to get that first oil change done. Then I did 3 more track days plus daily driving for about 1300 miles total (400 on track) and changed it again. Any idea what a reasonable schedule would be? I know the Boss Owners Supplement says change oil after every time your car is subjected to performance/comptetition conditions, but that seems a bit excessive. I'm thinking if I changed it after every two track weekends roughly 4-5 track days? Since I go at least once a month, the street miles would be 1k-2k max between these intervals.

IMO, I think you would be fine with this Gary. If you change it after every track day send it to me I will use it. You are not going to burn this oil up in one day.
 
908ssp said:
cloud9 said:
... I know the Boss Owners Supplement says change oil after every time your car is subjected to performance/comptetition conditions, but that seems a bit excessive. .....

I think Ford knows what they are talking about. having been involved in road racing for 30+ year I'll go with Ford's recommendation. In our historic CanAm car we changed 3 gallons of synthetic oil after every week end. Pay me now or pay me later.
I'm just looking for a little better clarification of Ford's recommendation. My track events are sometimes 1 day, sometimes 2 days and sometimes 3 days. A "typical" track day might be 4 25 minute sessions. However, sometimes if there's a low turnout and they run the track "green" all day, it might be a series of several sessions of varying length (until I get tired lol). So under these scenarios, it is highly unlikely many owners are changing oil at the track during a 3 day event. Strictly going by Ford's recommendation would mean changing oil both after a one day event (even rain shortened to a couple sessions) or after a 3 day event.
 
STIG302 said:
If you're going to change oil that often, would it be better to use racing oil?

Form BTOG:

Motor oil that is labeled for RACING ONLY is not usable for every day driving. Often these have more additives that are toxic to your catalytic converters and the environment. These oils generally do not have detergents. These are very important for your engine unless you plan on taking it apart every few weeks and cleaning every single surface. The oils do not meet the API / SAE requirements for ratings as SJ, SL or now SM.

Short answer: no.
 
cloud9 said:
I'm just looking for a little better clarification of Ford's recommendation. My track events are sometimes 1 day, sometimes 2 days and sometimes 3 days. A "typical" track day might be 4 25 minute sessions. However, sometimes if there's a low turnout and they run the track "green" all day, it might be a series of several sessions of varying length (until I get tired lol). So under these scenarios, it is highly unlikely many owners are changing oil at the track during a 3 day event. Strictly going by Ford's recommendation would mean changing oil both after a one day event (even rain shortened to a couple sessions) or after a 3 day event.

Do you have an oil temp gauge yet? My oil temp in the M3 gets to 200 -210 degrees F on the street. At a typical 25 min track session it gets to 220-230 degrees F. That not that much of a difference. If you your oil is getting to 300+ degrees then I would change it after the event. Oil will thicken in a very hot engine but it also thickens form the cold. They don't tell you to change your oil every time your engine is parked overnight in freezing temperatures do they?
 
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cloud9 said:
908ssp said:
cloud9 said:
... I know the Boss Owners Supplement says change oil after every time your car is subjected to performance/comptetition conditions, but that seems a bit excessive. .....

I think Ford knows what they are talking about. having been involved in road racing for 30+ year I'll go with Ford's recommendation. In our historic CanAm car we changed 3 gallons of synthetic oil after every week end. Pay me now or pay me later.
I'm just looking for a little better clarification of Ford's recommendation. My track events are sometimes 1 day, sometimes 2 days and sometimes 3 days. A "typical" track day might be 4 25 minute sessions. However, sometimes if there's a low turnout and they run the track "green" all day, it might be a series of several sessions of varying length (until I get tired lol). So under these scenarios, it is highly unlikely many owners are changing oil at the track during a 3 day event. Strictly going by Ford's recommendation would mean changing oil both after a one day event (even rain shortened to a couple sessions) or after a 3 day event.

High rpm and high temperatures drastically shorten oil life even synthetic. If you have a rain day of 5000 rpm for two hours and temperature doesn't go past 230 degrees you're probably fine leaving that in for the street. If you have done three days at or near 8000 rpm and 250 degree temperatures changing that out is cheap insurance.
 

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