Recommendations for OEM+ Camber Plate?

[blacksheep-1]

Time for my semi annual rant about moving your own camber plates. I only align 250 cars, mostly performance ones, per year, so I am hardly qualified to comment.... Not directed at anyone directly.

I have seen more tire wear and poorly driving cars from people moving their own plates back and forth than any sort of *proper* alignment.

The plates are not a repeatable adjustment. Even the good ones like Vorshlag, are in holes with oem tolerances, etc. An 1/16 difference in the plate is not significant to the camber reading, but guess what, it is very significant to the toe settings. I adjust 10 sets of plates per week while the car is hooked to a Hunter alignment machine, trust me. The same hash mark is not getting you the same camber (or toe) reading every time.

And more than anything else, toe is what kills tires for street or race alignments. Basically any toe out going down the road is just grinding the tire away. Everyone freaks out about negative camber and it is a red herring. You can easily run -3 with proper toe and barely cause any accelerated tire wear. But 1/16 toe out will kill a set in 5000 miles or less.

Higher negative camber will cause tramlining and other driveability issues that may be a PITA on the street and that can be a reason to limit camber.

Pick a number for camber - like I said above you can pretty much run as much as -1.8 or -1.9 on a Mustang with ZERO side effects except better turning and less outer edge wear. Run zero toe or slight toe IN and leave it alone.

DaveW

Agree with Dave here, even on the Gt4 cars which have actual caster and camber shims, we don't rely on the measurements, any suspension movement and it goes back on the scales. I think I run 3 degrees of negative camber on Superbeater, and all the positive caster I can crank into it as long as both sides match, along with about 1/16 of toe. 3 degrees might be a bit much for the street, but 2 to 2.5 should work for you, I would think.

 

[stevbd]

Time for my semi annual rant about moving your own camber plates. I only align 250 cars, mostly performance ones, per year, so I am hardly qualified to comment.... Not directed at anyone directly.

I have seen more tire wear and poorly driving cars from people moving their own plates back and forth than any sort of *proper* alignment.

The plates are not a repeatable adjustment. Even the good ones like Vorshlag, are in holes with oem tolerances, etc. An 1/16 difference in the plate is not significant to the camber reading, but guess what, it is very significant to the toe settings. I adjust 10 sets of plates per week while the car is hooked to a Hunter alignment machine, trust me. The same hash mark is not getting you the same camber (or toe) reading every time.

And more than anything else, toe is what kills tires for street or race alignments. Basically any toe out going down the road is just grinding the tire away. Everyone freaks out about negative camber and it is a red herring. You can easily run -3 with proper toe and barely cause any accelerated tire wear. But 1/16 toe out will kill a set in 5000 miles or less.

Higher negative camber will cause tramlining and other driveability issues that may be a PITA on the street and that can be a reason to limit camber.

Pick a number for camber - like I said above you can pretty much run as much as -1.8 or -1.9 on a Mustang with ZERO side effects except better turning and less outer edge wear. Run zero toe or slight toe IN and leave it alone.

DaveW

@DaveW fair points well made and well heard. So how do you recommend that those of us with dual duty cars get 3.5 degrees negative camber on Saturday and drive to work on Monday? I've been doing it this way on the recommendation of vendors for about 150,000 miles now and have yet to wear out a set of tires on the inside edge either on street or track. If anything I've wanted more neg camber on track. On all but the stickiest track tires (ie 3R), I've gotten totally even tire wear down to the wear bars on both my street and track setups. The 3Rs are only used on track and wear faster than I would prefer on the outside shoulder. I have separate street and track wheels and tires and swap at the track. Thanks.

EDIT - I should add, I only move the plate between maximum upright (where it is aligned with zero toe) and max neg camber at the track. I don't use the hash marks on the CC plate. This is on a 2011. When I asked Vorshlag how much camber to add for track days they responded "all of it." Which seems very Texas (I mean that as a compliment) but it does seem to work.

 

[DaveW]

@DaveW fair points well made and well heard. So how do you recommend that those of us with dual duty cars get 3.5 degrees negative camber on Saturday and drive to work on Monday? I've been doing it this way on the recommendation of vendors for about 150,000 miles now and have yet to wear out a set of tires on the inside edge either on street or track. If anything I've wanted more neg camber on track. On all but the stickiest track tires (ie 3R), I've gotten totally even tire wear down to the wear bars on both my street and track setups. The 3Rs are only used on track and wear faster than I would prefer on the outside shoulder. I have separate street and track wheels and tires and swap at the track. Thanks.

EDIT - I should add, I only move the plate between maximum upright (where it is aligned with zero toe) and max neg camber at the track. I don't use the hash marks on the CC plate. This is on a 2011. When I asked Vorshlag how much camber to add for track days they responded "all of it." Which seems very Texas (I mean that as a compliment) but it does seem to work.

Everything with suspension is a compromise....most people would be just as well served with -3 and toe in and leaving it versus moving it around. FYI, I just did an alignment on a STI with plates, .2 camber change on one side was a full 1/4" of plate movement, and on the other -.2 was less than 1/8". And the toe went nuts.

All that said, if what you are doing works, I certainly wouldn't change it. (and my rant was misplaced) Going from stop to stop probably is the key here, it rarely ends up there so you are lucky.

 

[OX1]

Time for my semi annual rant about moving your own camber plates. I only align 250 cars, mostly performance ones, per year, so I am hardly qualified to comment.... Not directed at anyone directly.

I have seen more tire wear and poorly driving cars from people moving their own plates back and forth than any sort of *proper* alignment.

The plates are not a repeatable adjustment. Even the good ones like Vorshlag, are in holes with oem tolerances, etc. An 1/16 difference in the plate is not significant to the camber reading, but guess what, it is very significant to the toe settings. I adjust 10 sets of plates per week while the car is hooked to a Hunter alignment machine, trust me. The same hash mark is not getting you the same camber (or toe) reading every time.

And more than anything else, toe is what kills tires for street or race alignments. Basically any toe out going down the road is just grinding the tire away. Everyone freaks out about negative camber and it is a red herring. You can easily run -3 with proper toe and barely cause any accelerated tire wear. But 1/16 toe out will kill a set in 5000 miles or less.

Higher negative camber will cause tramlining and other driveability issues that may be a PITA on the street and that can be a reason to limit camber.

Pick a number for camber - like I said above you can pretty much run as much as -1.8 or -1.9 on a Mustang with ZERO side effects except better turning and less outer edge wear. Run zero toe or slight toe IN and leave it alone.

DaveW

In my case, I came to that conclusion. But I tow to the track and do very little street mileage.
Have you actually measured toe difference, say per degree camber change, on a typical S550?
I have an older Hunter system and was going to measure it for kicks, but never got to it.

I plan to cut top hex off top of stock struts anyway, hoping to sneak them under bodywork without cutting,
and get 3ish degrees without camber bolts.