FoxBody Red Fox Build Thread Profile - Fox Body Mustangs

[Peter92lx]

I got the mini towers in the car today and the kmember squared to the car. Everything went good just took longer then I wanted so I didn't get a chance to install the upper and lower control arms. I'm going to try and get that done tomorrow. I also made two brackets to support the kmember. The first one I mentioned before I used a piece of angle iron to close up the gap between the frame rail and the kmember.



Then the rear mount of the kmember had a big gap between it so I got piece of iron bar to fill in the gap.



I did test fit the upper arm on the driver side since it was easy.



I need to install the bushings into the lower control arms to get them in the car. They are a really tight fit. I tried to freeze them but they still wouldn't install. I think I need to press them in. Unfortunately my press isn't easy to get out. I'm hoping to get it finished up over the next couple weeks.

 

[Peter92lx]

I got the lower and upper arms built so I could mock up the front suspension.



I didn't install the shock yet I just wanted to get an idea of a few things that I thought might be problems. It turns out they are problems. Nothing that can't be over come it will just take some adjustments. The first thing is the lower control arm length. I know from research the Maximum Motorsports lower control arms are about 1/4 longer. I wanted to see if could make it work without adjusting the lower arms to make them longer but it looks like I will have change the length of the arms. The next is wheel offset this one I was thinking about but wasn't sure if it would be a problem. It's going to be a problem the tire was sticking out I would say more then an inch past the fender when it used to sit about a 1/4 inch inside the fender. I might need to find a wheel with a 40mm-52mm offset. I still need to check the steering rack and a couple other things but so far I will need to adjust a few things.

 

[Peter92lx]

I got the driver side mocked up. I had to make a few adjustments to the lower arms but it all went in really easy. I'm currently looking at another set of wheels since its obvious the ones I have right now in the front won't work. I think a 40mm offset wheel will work but I'm going to go with a 52mm offset wheel so I could move it in further if I had to. I'm hoping to have it all installed by the end of the weekend so I can get started on finishing up the steering.

 

[TYancy]

I got the driver side mocked up. I had to make a few adjustments to the lower arms but it all went in really easy. I'm currently looking at another set of wheels since its obvious the ones I have right now in the front won't work. I think a 40mm offset wheel will work but I'm going to go with a 52mm offset wheel so I could move it in further if I had to. I'm hoping to have it all installed by the end of the weekend so I can get started on finishing up the steering.

Love it! I would darn near build your car's twin if I didn't have two small children. I personally still haven't made my mind up over IRs vs solid rear axle.

 

[Peter92lx]

Finally have some small updates on the car. I was on vacation with the family for a week so I really haven't made much progress on the car. I did get the power steering lines built I just need to clean them up so they are not flopping around.





The lines were easier to make then I thought considering the amount of pressure they can handle. I used the Aeroquip hose and fittings KRC recommends. I also got the Apex wheels for the car I went with the SM-10 in a 18x11 52 offset. They work perfect for the front but the rear needs an 1-1/2 spacer which I'm not a big fan of running. I have enough thread engagement for the lugs just don't feel comfortable about it. Unfortunately from my research so far it looks like if I want something with two different offsets I will have to go custom.



I still have a lot to do on the car but hoping it will go quick. I need to make a check list tonight so I can start focusing better. I hope to have it back on the ground on Sunday but that might be a long shot.

 

[Peter92lx]

I'm finally starting to check things off the list of things that need to get done. I have most of the front suspension installed and torqued down. I still need to finish a couple things with the brake calipers but it's all coming together. I got the brake calipers mounted so I could figure out where to mount the the hard lines to keep everything away from the suspension and tire. I found a spot and started to make the hard lines and figure out how long of a flex line I will need.



The hard line was really easy to make on the driver side but I know the passenger side is going to be a bit harder.



I put a cover over the line to protect it from damage. I'm hoping to get the passenger side built tonight so I can be ready to bleed the brakes tomorrow night.

 

[Dave_W]

Just a note on one of my pet peeves - that upper shock mount bolt is in single-shear.

Fasteners in single-shear suffer from both shear and bending loads; in double-shear they only see shear loads and the total load is distrubuted to two shear locations, halving the shear load through each fastener cross-section. Every road imperfection and body roll that moves the wheel relative to the body is trying to bend that bolt. If the loads are too high for the fastener, it will deform and eventually fracture.

Here's an article from industrial fastener distributor Fastenal that includes the formulas, if you want to calculate the load capacity of a bolt in single shear and double shear.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article%20-%20Bolted%20Joint%20Design.pdf

Now, all that said, the folks at MM are very likely to have run the numbers and sized that bolt appropriately so that expected loads are in the elastic range. But it might still be good to remove it every so often to check that it's not bent. Probably do that for the bump steer / steering bolt as well. Seems like as you go from street car to race car, more and more things become "consumables" that need to be regularly checked and replaced.

 

[PatientZero]

Now, all that said, the folks at MM are very likely to have run the numbers and sized that bolt appropriately so that expected loads are in the elastic range.

Maximum Motorsports doesn't make the SLA kit.

 

[Dave_W]

Ah, sorry, I saw the logo in the pic and thought everything was from the same company. I read back through the thread and saw it's actually a Griggs SLA kit and an MM K-member. I would trust Griggs to run the numbers as well, but personally I'd still check it every so often.

PS - When you have time, you can add the Griggs SLA kit to the list of suspension items on the Specs & Mods page.

 

[Peter92lx]

Ah, sorry, I saw the logo in the pic and thought everything was from the same company. I read back through the thread and saw it's actually a Griggs SLA kit and an MM K-member. I would trust Griggs to run the numbers as well, but personally I'd still check it every so often.

PS - When you have time, you can add the Griggs SLA kit to the list of suspension items on the Specs & Mods page.

Sorry I forget about the the Specs & Mods it really needed some updating. If it wasn't for the fact it's Griggs and this is the same basic tower design he's been using since the early 2000s I would be more concerned about it. Something I haven't asked him is why with the Fox Body tower he uses the single-shear mounting but with the SN-95 tower he uses double-shear. It seems to me it would be easy to change the fox one to match the SN95 tower. But with that I've added that bolt to the list of ones I will be checking. I normally like to check the Bump steer bolt like you mentioned and the IRS lower shock mount bolt.

 

[Peter92lx]

The car is back on the ground finally after sitting on Jack stands since the beginning of June.



Not the best picture of the car. I got all the finishing stuff done pretty quick yesterday so I took the car over to JBA for an alignment. I decided against driving it over and took it over on my trailer. As you can tell from the picture we have a bit of positive camber going right now. I got the toe close but it all needs a lot of work. After they are done I will get it home hook my string alignment stuff and camber gauges take measurements so I can make my own adjustments as needed. The rest of the events this year will be working on the setup of the car. I'm going to start out with the same spring rate and shock setting I was using before with the strut setup then work from there.

When I get the car back I still have a few thing I need to do. The car needs an oil change I hadn't done one yet since I had to disconnect the oil cooler because the lines ran right where the sway bar mounts. It should be easy to reroute the lines. I also need to make some brackets to mount the ABS sensors on the front of the car. I guess Griggs never made a bracket for the SN95 ABS sensor for their spindle. I still have plans to install the MK60e5 ABS module but not sure when I'm going to make that happen.

 

[Peter92lx]

The car got aligned last week and everything worked out. I do have a few issues I need to get resolved. When I cut my fenders for the flares in front I didn't cut them all the way up it was never a problem with the strut suspension since it didn't travel that far up. Now that the car has a 2inch drop spindle in it the ride height is really low. I'm finding my fender flares in the front are no longer going to work. I need more clearance up top and I need it to bulge out more to keep the tire from hitting. The only thing I can think of doing is going with the Maier 3inch fender flares or the JBA Dominator GTC kit. I would like to stick with the chicane 23 flares but don't think I can do anything that will make them work. I could also enlist my father in law to help me come up with something he is really good at working fiberglass.

I also ran into an issue that my ABS sensors won't work on the spindles. The body of the sensor is to big so I can't get it close enough to the tone ring. I did some research and found the 2004 Crown Vic had the same Bosch ABS module. The rear sensors are the same type as the mustang front sensors. The only difference is the body of the CV sensor is smaller which might get me close enough to work or I might be going to a MK60 or S197 ABS setup sooner then planned. Sorry for no pictures in this post I will try and get some for this weekend post.

 

[Peter92lx]

I've been meaning to post something up after the first event with the new front suspension but unfortunately work and life just got into the way. The car ran good for the first test of the new front suspension. I had an issue with the power steering at first but it cleared up after the my first run. I think the system might have had a bit more air in it that had to work it's way out. I was really surprised how well the front end of the car was working. It was working so well I have to adjust my driving. I hit cones on all but one run which unfortunately dropped me to 7th place at the end of the event. My fastest run if clean would have been good for second place. That run also had a big mistake at around the 14 second mark of my run which you can see in the video.

Here's my first run from the camera mounted on the outside of the car. This was my first run just trying to feel out the front suspension. I don't know why but this is the only video the outside camera recorded.

The car did really good considering it was around 100 degrees out and I was really pushing on it. The new suspension setup has a lot of potential. I managed a time that was good enough for second place with a big mistake in the beginning of the run. Now for the dumb part during the event it felt like the rear of the car was really loose. I thought the front was working so well the rear couldn't keep up. I noticed after get on the brakes hard and releasing them the switching to the gas the car would be loose. I thought about making adjustments to the suspension until I realized after putting the car back on the trailer I had left the rear brake bias all the way put for maximum rear brakes. I normally turn the rear brakes full open when I bleed the brakes on the car and forgot to reset it. So I'm planning to make no changes to the car before the next event.

The things I still need to work on is figuring out how to get the ABS working in the car again. I want to go MK60 but the easiest might be the 2009 GT500 ABS module. I'm probably going to run until the end of the year without ABS in the car. I also need to figure out fender flares for the car. JBA gave me a set of old ebay bolt on flares they had which I will probably use until the end of the year. I also got all the support rods and brakets for doing a splitter on the car but that might not happen until the end of the year or when I figure out the fender flares. I looking at this CP car and really like how they did the front fenders on the car and the way the tied them into the splitter



I would just have to figure out how he made it.

 

[Peter92lx]

I've been meaning to post since the last event but just haven't had a chance. It was a very hot day at the event that the Gopro's really struggled so i really don't have any good video from the event. Which is fine since it went poorly. I ended up finishing 5th with no real good times that I can say I hit a cone and that's why I finished 5th. I'm finding the front of the car is sprung to soft. After research and talking with other people running a Griggs SLA I need to go up in spring rate considerably. Which I plan on doing before the next event. The other issue the car was having it was really slow out of the corners. It was painfully slow just not enough RPM to pull it out of the corners. When we were running at the last place and I could just use first gear it was great. Really nice engine braking pull strong out of corners I got spoiled. This venue is to fast for just first gear and to slow for second gear. I've looked at going to 4.10 gear in the car which would give me a 500 RPM boost. I'm also starting to work on getting the ABS brakes working again. I decided to go with the S197 ABS swap for my car. Converting over the wiring from my 04 Cobra ABS will be a lot easier then trying to use the BMW MK60e5 ABS module. I already got the front wheel speed sensors mounted yesterday.



After reading this thread.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/thr...abs-modules-on-2004-and-older-mustangs.17323/

I ordered the ALS1874 wheel speed sensors for my IRS to see if they will work. It looks like they should but you never know. The plan is to get it all up and running before the Nov 3rd event but then I read this thread.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/abs.17763/

Now I'm starting to wonder if I should get the parts to install the 11-14 ABS module. Not sure how much better it is then the 09 GT500 module I have right now. I'm wondering if the addition of the Yaw sensor in the RCM module connected to the ABS module might help with trail braking into corners. I have to do more research on the 11-14 ABS modules.

I've also looked at swapping back to manual brakes in the car I have the Maximum manual brake kit that was in the car sometime ago. I was also thinking of using this from Wilwood so I could run independent master cylinders with a balance bar.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-340-16928

I still have a few thing to figure out but I need to do it quick if I want to make the next event.

 

[RinerAuto]

Honestly for autocross I think it's better to keep ABS than going to manual brakes. That said I've never driven or raced with manual brakes.

I too have been debating between the GT500 ABS and 11-14 ABS. I'm not a huge fan of having to install the yaw sensor as I currently have a racecapture installed in that location, but I think it will be better. I'm sure you have seen the ABS swap facebook group?

 

[Fabman]

Honestly for autocross I think it's better to keep ABS than going to manual brakes. That said I've never driven or raced with manual brakes.

I too have been debating between the GT500 ABS and 11-14 ABS. I'm not a huge fan of having to install the yaw sensor as I currently have a racecapture installed in that location, but I think it will be better. I'm sure you have seen the ABS swap facebook group?

Abs swap group? Do you have a link for that? Doesn’t come up in a search.

 

[Peter92lx]

Honestly for autocross I think it's better to keep ABS than going to manual brakes. That said I've never driven or raced with manual brakes.

I too have been debating between the GT500 ABS and 11-14 ABS. I'm not a huge fan of having to install the yaw sensor as I currently have a racecapture installed in that location, but I think it will be better. I'm sure you have seen the ABS swap facebook group?

I know the ABS swaps and Hacks group but I haven't found a group just for the S197 ABS swap. My plan is to run the 09 GT500 ABS module since I already have it and everything I need to make it work. I have the front sensors mounted just have to work on the rear sensors. I'm hoping to have it working by the Dec 14th event.

 

[RinerAuto]

Abs swap group? Do you have a link for that? Doesn’t come up in a search.

ABS Swaps and Hacks

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[Peter92lx]

Had a good event last weekend. The spring rate change made the car a lot better still a bit of oversteer in the car but it was manageable. I will have to work on that for the next event. This course was better for the car faster corners so it didn't suffer so much with bogging out of corners. I was hoping to finish better then 4th but it was a good showing for a test event with 90+ lap old A052 Yokos I've been running all season. I might have hurt these tires a bit in the heat of summer. I want to get a good balance in the car before I put new tires on it for next year. Here's my fastest run of the day from inside the car and outside of the car.

The car is currently at JBA getting some 4.10 gears installed in it. The short courses we run at now and the fact the car makes more power higher up in the rpm range the 3.55 gears just weren't working out anymore. When I get the car back from them I'm going to work on getting the rear ABS sensors installed and everything wired. The after the Nov 23rd event I'm going to install the 09 GT500 ABS module and plumb it. since I already have the 04 cobra ABS plumbing the GT500 unit should be easy. I should have updates for the ABS sensor install and later for the ABS pump install.

 

[RinerAuto]

If you have plans to run bigger courses the 4.10s are going to hurt as you'll need to shift more or hit rev limiter.