Better buy, Mach 1 or GT500?

[funksouljon]

I was screwing around, went to the local Ford dealer and test drove a 2019 GT just to see if I was missing something and should sell my S197 for a newer S550. I liked it, definitely was better in many ways. But I really enjoy the more raw feel of my older, low mileage 08 GT. Esp for how I am using it (many less tears if I crash is part of the math). But more power is going to be on the list.

But it got me thinking, with ICE going away in the next some # years, how collectable or investment worthy is a Mach1 / GTXX0 in another 10 years or so. They had a couple Mach1's ordered that we not for driving, but for those who have driven, is the Mach1 $ worth the bump up over a GT for giggles? What about the bump up in GT500 over a Mach1, worth the extra cost?

What do you think the future value of a Mach1 / GT500 will be once less and less cars have ICE? I did ride in a MachE Mustang yesterday, and it was fast, no doubt. But the sound of a V8 is just fun, it's part of the driving experience.

What say y'all who own and maybe have considered the future value of these things?

 

[RES_22]

Low mileage 2020 350R.....that's the one.

 

[Champale]

OP - very funny you posted because I went and looked at GT500s yesterday and have also been intrigued by the Mach 1s with the Handling pack. I have a 2020 GT350R and I am not replacing it but if I got something else it would sit next to the 350R. I have not driven either the 500 or the M1 but I think they are both going to be great drivers. Obviously, a GT500 CFTP would be the top of the food chain in terms of collectability but I think a Mach 1 with Recaros, Handling pack, and Tremec would be a solid car to hold onto. Plus, it would be fun to drive.

The cons of the 500 for me are a) still big ADMs on the CFTPs and b) is it too fast to really have fun with? I have a 707hp Jeep Trackhawk as a daily driver and even as heavy as it is, I very rarely get to go full throttle for more than a few seconds at a time so a car is way faster (the 500s do 132mph in the 1/4!) might be too much unless I plan on only driving at 4am or something.

Cons of the Mach 1 are: I already own what is apparenty the best, most fun manual transmission Mustang ever made so would it be a letdown?

BTW I have owned 2 Boss 302s and LOVED THEM. I do really like the old school feel of the S197 cars. Had my 2013 LS for 8 years and even had it alongside the 350R for about a year but I found myself always grabbing the keys to the 350R instead of the Boss so I sold it to a friend.

Bill Pemberton has a Mach 1 and has owned/driven a bunch of other Mustangs so Bill what say you??

 

[JAJ]

I was screwing around, went to the local Ford dealer and test drove a 2019 GT just to see if I was missing something and should sell my S197 for a newer S550. I liked it, definitely was better in many ways. But I really enjoy the more raw feel of my older, low mileage 08 GT. Esp for how I am using it (many less tears if I crash is part of the math). But more power is going to be on the list.

But it got me thinking, with ICE going away in the next some # years, how collectable or investment worthy is a Mach1 / GTXX0 in another 10 years or so. They had a couple Mach1's ordered that we not for driving, but for those who have driven, is the Mach1 $ worth the bump up over a GT for giggles? What about the bump up in GT500 over a Mach1, worth the extra cost?

What do you think the future value of a Mach1 / GT500 will be once less and less cars have ICE? I did ride in a MachE Mustang yesterday, and it was fast, no doubt. But the sound of a V8 is just fun, it's part of the driving experience.

What say y'all who own and maybe have considered the future value of these things?

If you want to figure out future values, look at the relative values of the first round of GTXX0's and Mach 1's. They were current models in late 1960's and early 1970's - 50 years ago. Where are the prices now? I have no idea, but whichever one of them kept its value the best is probably a reasonable signal for how to think about the question today. I doubt that the merits of the cars matter as much as the rarity factor and reputation.

 

[funksouljon]

If you want to figure out future values, look at the relative values of the first round of GTXX0's and Mach 1's. They were current models in late 1960's and early 1970's - 50 years ago. Where are the prices now? I have no idea, but whichever one of them kept its value the best is probably a reasonable signal for how to think about the question today. I doubt that the merits of the cars matter as much as the rarity factor and reputation.

That was my thought as well, just wondering if some of the car nuts here who already own some version have considered the value and can speak to it. I was also looking at how many were made throughout the years as GT is mass produced but even the large number (relatively speaking) of Mach1 is still low (in the 26K range for 2021 I think). I do agree its a balance between rarity and merits, but the end of the ICE has has to be a to be determined factor. I'd think.

 

[mavisky]

Buy the car that's fun to drive. With maintenance, insurance, etc... you'll come out much better in the markets with your money than betting on sports cars to appreciate.

 

[JDee]

I kind of want to blow some money before I get to the wheelchair.
Looking at the GT500, very tempting but it is just such a fat heavy girl that I just struggle with the whole idea. Starts at $99K by the looks of it up here, CFTP one seems more like $120K. I'm not even sure it would do a 20 minute session at Mosport on a tank of gas!!! I wonder how much weight could you strip out of that car?

So then maybe a Mach 1 which at least has a Tremec gear box? It starts at $72K up here. But it's got a lot of junk on it that I wouldn't value, stuff that doesn't make it go faster is not desirable. More junk to strip out.

My current car was bought because it has zero options other than PP1. That's what I want, go fast stuff only, if I could get one without even a radio I'd do that for sure. GM made lightweight stripper Camaros in years gone by, Ford needs to do that with 'stang. Get rid of all the crap, if it don't make it faster take it off. They'd prolly sell about 3 of them, since everyone wants creature comforts and toys.
And then there's the safety nazis.....

Maybe a vette? If you could get one it'd prolly be $100k for a plain jane, plus some greasing of the sales manager's palm. And they're loaded with junk as well. And that passenger seat area is a disgrace. And I really think the styling is a bit off. Plus if I bought a vette I'd be publicly admitting that I am an old crock over the age of 70 and I try to keep that a secret, I really don't look a day over 69. Actually, to be honest, there are a couple of people less than 70 in the GF's Corvette club, may 2 or 3 people out of 30 couples.

Or I keep my current car and go nuts buying stuff to lighten it up because its weight is the biggest issue I have. Start with all the windows, optic armor windshield and plexi/lexan everything else, gut the doors (or go crazy and spend 5K on CF doors and fight trying to get them to fit), and just look at everything else and see what is not needed. Stitch weld everything (though I don't see any signs that this car flexes), remove everything removable, scrape out all the crap. But you'd prolly be better with a body in white and swap the guts over.

Or find a GT4 and buy that. And then enjoy paying for 50 hour teardowns on the motor and 25 hours tear downs on the gearbox.....Multimatic's just a short 40 mile jaunt from me, I'm sure they could lighten my wallet by 5 figures every visit.....blow through that pesky money in no time.

As they say, first world problems......

 

[302BOB]

I went thru this "what to buy" dilemma 11 yrs ago when I became enchanted with the idea of owning a fast manual car, again, like I had in my younger days. My Camaro SS buddy may have spurred those yearnings on as well as a touch of midlife crisis settling in.......who knows????....all I know is that I wanted one!!!! My first inkling was getting a SRT8 Challenger (Hellcats weren't around yet). But for some reason I started thinking about Mustangs, which led me to the discovery of the Boss 302 being offered as a limited edition. The rest is history!!......Sure, I had to go thru the allocation process and paid the stealer's ADM but it was worth it. I'm not a track rat...never was, never will be.....I'm just a performance connoisseur ( try spelling that without a dictionary!!!). The highlight of my day is the Adrenalin rush I get going thru the gears and giving that tach a workout..........that's all I need. If resale values increase down the road, so be it, Son will benefit from it, not me............................

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Having spent 30+ years selling high performance cars and trucks , along to getting Dodge to build a couple of special editions for the Dealership I worked for I would have to tell folks the winner long term will be the GT500. I love my Mach 1 and surprisingly I find it as much fun as all my Boss 302s and even my GT 350, but with the limited number of GT500s, the HP number will rule exactly like a 69 Boss 429 holds sway over a regular 69 Boss 302. Those of us who actually track our cars are in the minority by quite a bit, yet the Armchair Racers are a distinct majority and they will pony up to buy the power. I agree with RES_22 that a GT350 should be thrown in the picture, as the Voodoo will hold a spot in V8 history akin to the Hemi, a Cobrajet, or a 427 three deuce Corvette.

All that said, the car for you may be the one you can afford and if ye olde wallet has some big green hiding in it , I would jump on a GT 500.

 

[ChrisM]

Since you asked about this for investment purposes...cars are a terrible investment. If you want to have fun and need a justification, just go with whatever makes you happy, because if you want it as an "investment" then it needs to sit unused and unloved, but well maintained, in a climate-controlled facility. If you're trying to make money, then take whatever you'd make for a car payment and set it aside in a retirement fund or property.

 

[funksouljon]

Since you asked about this for investment purposes...cars are a terrible investment. If you want to have fun and need a justification, just go with whatever makes you happy, because if you want it as an "investment" then it needs to sit unused and unloved, but well maintained, in a climate-controlled facility. If you're trying to make money, then take whatever you'd make for a car payment and set it aside in a retirement fund or property.

To be clear here, I am NOT asking about it as an investment as a retirement plan. Im asking as a "which has the lowest drop of all the depreciating assets". Which option will give the most shits n giggles in the short term and have the best option as a sale in a long time out. For something that can be used as a weekend toy. Does the GT500 offer that much more fun for the 30%+ increase in price? Does that 30% stay in long term value? Looking at some of the original price of a 70s Mustang vs resale prices now, its just staggering. For a car with miles. The price to get a M1 just seems a lot more palatable. And the probability of keeping a car that long is highly unlikely.

 

[TMSBOSS]

That's what I want, go fast stuff only, if I could get one without even a radio I'd do that for sure. GM made lightweight stripper Camaros in years gone by, Ford needs to do that with 'stang. Get rid of all the crap, if it don't make it faster take it off. They'd prolly sell about 3 of them, since everyone wants creature comforts and toys.
And then there's the safety nazis.....

Good point. I was hoping Ford would have stayed with the "Stripper" level car with the GT350R. When I ordered my GT350R I ticked the boxes for the stripes and cover, thats it. Looking at production numbers I was one of three who bought GT350R in white WITHOUT the tech package. Why do you need hands free navigation for a track oriented car?

 

[TMSBOSS]

To be clear here, I am NOT asking about it as an investment as a retirement plan. Im asking as a "which has the lowest drop of all the depreciating assets". Which option will give the most shits n giggles in the short term and have the best option as a sale in a long time out.

The GT350R may not go down in value, is a blast to drive and is plenty quick.
I agree, a well sorted S197 sure is fun to drive. The S550's seem to be "Softer" and less seat of your pants fun to drive. YMMV

 

[funksouljon]

The GT350R may not go down in value, is a blast to drive and is plenty quick.
I agree, a well sorted S197 sure is fun to drive. The S550's seem to be "Softer" and less seat of your pants fun to drive. YMMV

I don't have a good baseline for a stock S197, when I got mine, it needed a lot of work so replaced a bunch. But I agree the 550 was "softer"; refined feeling than my current. Really too much for my liking, I like the raw feel. However, I did like the the auto rev match when downshifting. But an extra 100hp would be amazing. It did feel bigger but had less back seat leg room. But Im keeping the S197 as a toy. One of the local guys has a 69? mustang he has been racing since the mid 70s he said. Its awesome. We should all be so lucky to find a car we keep for 40+ years.

 

[Stan Whitney]

Recently going for a gt350 to gt500, if either of those cars are in your radar, get one. The rev range of the 350 lets you hang gears where the mach1 needs to upshift. The 500 is really good, and not that heavy. My non carbon car, with recaros was low 3900s all stock with 3/4 tank. Maybe 100-150 more than a 350. You don’t need a cftp 500 to enjoy it. it Is a spring swap and tire change away from being 95% there.

 

[RES_22]

I kind of want to blow some money before I get to the wheelchair.

Jeez @JDee, you old crab!

So go buy a cf framed wheelchair. drop in a hybrid Gen 2 Voodoo (prolly get a huge subsidy from the feds for going greenish) and *boom* - 180mph over the crest into T8 at Mosport.

StarTrek speed, uber collectability/resale....and imagine the attention you'll get from all the little pit squiddies between sessions !!!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Dang RES, you made a point, since JDee and I are likely some of the closest candidates for a Hoveround! I guess we will both be going electric sooner than we thought, haha!

 

[JDee]

Don't need the wheelchair yet, walking 11,000 steps, 40 push ups and 71 sit ups every day has so far kept Father Time at bay! I add an extra sit up every year. But even lots of exercise can't keep everything working like it used to, there's a few more aches, pains and stuff that's not working as good as it used to when I was a young pup of 60!
Thing is I hate heavy cars, love the idea of the GT500 but every magazine test I've seen for it has shown the curb weight over 4,000 lbs. The GT350R is also interesting, but that motor has had a pretty checkered history, not sure I want to go down that road. If you could even find one.
My current car is a lightweight compared to those cars, only option on the thing is PP1 and the interior is gutted with lightweight race seats, though I did add a roll bar. I like lighter cars, to say the least.
I should see if I can wrangle a test drive in a GT500, it might feel lighter than the numbers say it is.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Lifted my arm 27 times drinking coffee, walked across the kitchen 6 times, changed the toilet paper roll, and am typing this note on the computer -- may have to go take a nap soon.
My main exercise is hammering around a road course or an autocross , and August has 2 weekend track events and two Autocross events ( well the Solo Nationals actually starts the beginning of September ). Those days usually mean walking 12,000 to 18,000 steps and then often conclude with a lot of lifting from table to mouth of various types of cereal malt beverages. Okay, I am tired and I guess my exercise regimen is not as strong as JDee's but it works for me, ha!

 

[JDee]

Yeah, no doubt track days are very good exercise days, especially once you've decided to go the trailer route. Loading and unloading are always a lot of work, and often entail unnecessary/unforseen excitement. Lowered cars are just a beyotch to get on and off a trailer cleanly, it seems like it never works the same way twice. Having a winch helps getting the car loaded under control. But, if you've picked a spot in the paddock that's not level you're in for an extra helping of "fun"...

I have a smart watch that tracks my exercise. Track days always end up on the very high end of the scale for activity. The step counter in my watch thinks all the gear shifting and clutch work are steps, plus it's recording massive travel distances, so I get huge numbers for the day with that stuff plus walking around the pits socializing with people and so on. Good for the tolerance to heat as well, with no a/c in the car and closed windows saying it gets a tad hot in there is an understatement.

So I can truly say doing track days keeps me healthy!