My S197 Got crushed by a trio of M3's on trackday at Waterford Hills MI

[67GTA]

67GTA is this the apex 11" wheel setup with the spacers they recommend i think like 100mm front and 40mm rear? it looks perfect that's the most tasteful set of 315/30/18's i've seen.

The ones in that picture are actually 19x11 et52 with 305/30-19 Goodyear 3R’s, 25mm spacers on the front, no spacers on the rear. I also run 18x11 et52, same spacer. Here’s a pic with that setup:

 

[modernbeat]

Put my glasses on and read the list again.... "Swap to the heavier, adjustable, Whiteline sway bars, particularly in the rear." that one was hard to get my head around. The idea is to have more traction....
If you just want to beat a M3, then put the ford racing shocks/struts kit with a small bar in the rear. Will need some decent 275/35-19 or bigger tires and your done, great handling car ready to have fun on the track.

The Ford Racing stuff is fun, not fast.

And most people use far too stiff a spring in the rear, which is why deleting the rear bar is so popular. But it's not fast.
The better setup is a soft-ish rear spring and an adjustable rear bar. I like the Whiteline bar because it mounts backwards compared the the stock bar, which makes it very easy to adjust.

 

[Mad Hatter]

If we are talking about the S197, then track times do the talking. The fastest S197 I can think of is the Phoenix car with no rear bar and not at all stiffly sprung. Yes it has a very good driver (and shocks) but it does not have a super trick suspension or massive HP. I would agree that the small 18mm rear bar makes the car fun to drive and feels more natural, specially to a new driver, but its not faster. The phoenix car puts down lap times in the Mustang GT4 range, at least at Laguna Seca.

And most people use far too stiff a spring in the rear, which is why deleting the rear bar is so popular

You would say a #300 rear spring is too stiff??? Don't understand the logic behind your statement. Having stiff rear springs would defeat the whole point of removing the rear bar.



For me, the rear bar delete is for corner exit. The car hooks up like crazy and leaves theoretically faster cars like Porsche GT4's in for a shock. It does take some getting used, but its a very fast combo. If you have a S197 lap time of 1:30.xx at Laguna Seca with a rear bar, would be very curious to see it and open to be convinced.

 

[modernbeat]

If we are talking about the S197, then track times do the talking. The fastest S197 I can think of is the Phoenix car with no rear bar and not at all stiffly sprung. Yes it has a very good driver (and shocks) but it does not have a super trick suspension or massive HP. I would agree that the small 18mm rear bar makes the car fun to drive and feels more natural, specially to a new driver, but its not faster. The phoenix car puts down lap times in the Mustang GT4 range, at least at Laguna Seca.

You would say a #300 rear spring is too stiff??? Don't understand the logic behind your statement. Having stiff rear springs would defeat the whole point of removing the rear bar.

With a rear swaybar the 300# spring is too stiff.
And without a swaybar you lose a good tuning tool.

 

[Mad Hatter]

With a rear swaybar the 300# spring is too stiff.
And without a swaybar you lose a good tuning tool.

Ok, I would say, with out a swaybar, #300 is fast for corner exit, The understeer you get, you can dial out by late braking to bring the rear around. If you don't load up the front on braking, I would agree that the car will not want to turn.

 

[Champale]

I enjoy the fact that there are multiple solutions for these cars. There is no such thing as a 1 size fits all it seems like.

Jason - is your recommendation based on the HUGE tires you guys were running at the end of your S197 track development? I think 345mm rears and 325 or 335 fronts?

 

[twistedneck]

The Ford Racing stuff is fun, not fast.

And most people use far too stiff a spring in the rear, which is why deleting the rear bar is so popular. But it's not fast.
The better setup is a soft-ish rear spring and an adjustable rear bar. I like the Whiteline bar because it mounts backwards compared the the stock bar, which makes it very easy to adjust.

this makes me realize how smart i am since i have every freaking bar size available i tried all of them w my coil overs - (i run springs very soft 375 front 150 rear) - the roll was not balanced until i used that tiny 18mm rear bar the one with the white links. back then we colored the links instead of making a colored tape.. i remember trying the 26mm from the laguna, it was useless and made the car feel like it was completely disconnected front to rear. oh and the 26mm also will destroy a clutch type rear diff too. damn thing has so much wheel pick up it must have got the diff hot.

 

[twistedneck]

The ones in that picture are actually 19x11 et52 with 305/30-19 Goodyear 3R’s, 25mm spacers on the front, no spacers on the rear. I also run 18x11 et52, same spacer. Here’s a pic with that setup:

View attachment 90090

may i ask why you wanted the beast 19's ? and did you notice a difference??

 

[67GTA]

may i ask why you wanted the beast 19's ? and did you notice a difference??

19’s are for the Goodyear 3R’s since the widest 18” they offer is a 285/30. The 19’s are slightly taller, so it makes for a subtle final gear change, really only noticed in RPM’s at the top end of straights.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Keep in mind that photo was the car coming OFF the corner, it launched like jack the rat, a pic of the car going INTO a corner, looked like this

 

[blacksheep-1]

The Roush cars for comparison, a bit different setup as these were Grand Am with little aero permitted unlike the other 2 pics..

 

[blacksheep-1]

One of my faves... Team and MFG championships that year., just missed on the driver's championship. thanks, BoP

 

[Mad Hatter]

Looking at the front splitter touching the ground, I would guess this is on the brakes still? Seeing that this car and driver combo got 1:30.7 at Laguna Seca, its a bench mark for a what a S197 can potentially reach.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Looking at the front splitter touching the ground, I would guess this is on the brakes still? Seeing that this car and driver combo got 1:30.7 at Laguna Seca, its a bench mark for a what a S197 can potentially reach.

We actually had to fix that, it was a bit extreme, if you go back to the video I posted at Daytona from inside the car, you can see the nose rise and fall, the car had a huge range of ride height, similar to the Roush cars, maybe more.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Let's not forget that not only is AJ a jet, but he can also engineer the car on the fly, that is a huge benefit, and only him,( to a lessor extent Kurt Rezzatano), could do that, until Billy Johnson ran for us, he's also pretty good at it. AJ has also been know to be hanging around the shock dyno at 3AM running numbers. This is not something easily duplicated, it is very hard work and dedication. I was proud ot be part of it.

 

[blacksheep-1]

BTW... earlier today

Aquilante Bags 14th Career Championship in T1 in Flag to Flag Victory

Andrew Aquilante, of Chester Springs, Pennsylvania, solidified his hold on third all-time in SCCA road racing National Championships with a flag-to...

www.scca.com

 

[Champale]

BTW... earlier today

Aquilante Bags 14th Career Championship in T1 in Flag to Flag Victory

Andrew Aquilante, of Chester Springs, Pennsylvania, solidified his hold on third all-time in SCCA road racing National Championships with a flag-to...

www.scca.com

What a fantastic picture wow!

 

[Mad Hatter]

There may be many ways to to make a S197 fast but with results like that, its a no brainer for me to try to follow the Phoenix racing recipe to race success. If I remember right its mostly Ford racing stuff with the addition of Penske shocks and very very carefull suspension tuning. All that that plus an exceptional driver.

 

[EF1]

There may be many ways to to make a S197 fast but with results like that, its a no brainer for me to try to follow the Phoenix racing recipe to race success. If I remember right its mostly Ford racing stuff with the addition of Penske shocks and very very carefull suspension tuning. All that that plus an exceptional driver.

The last line says it all. The driver has a lot to do with it. I have a feeling I could switch cars with him and I would still get lapped.

 

[Mad Hatter]

BTW... earlier today

Aquilante Bags 14th Career Championship in T1 in Flag to Flag Victory

Andrew Aquilante, of Chester Springs, Pennsylvania, solidified his hold on third all-time in SCCA road racing National Championships with a flag-to...

www.scca.com

Does any one know where you can see the video for the race? Did not see it any where on the SCCA youtube etc.