Junkyard Dog said:

This is an exciting build.

I don't understand the highlighted comment. Are you building it knowing you won't be able to keep it cool, or are you saying screw the theory, I am going to make it work?

In post #9, I see the intercooler at the bottom, a bronze colored oil cooler, and the radiator. Where do you get a triple pass radiator? What does "ducted in the rear" mean?

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The 2nd heat exchanger is in the trunk ducted with isle 11 lowes A/C supplies and vented out the license plate which i normally have a larger vent for at races. it looks like sh*t but it or the fact it just has a ton of volumne really works. I also had to work around gridlife rules. Its super borderline tho lol. It has the added benefit of making the car very balanced with all thay weight in the rear.

As for the motor i think anything over 750whp it starts becoming a 1 lap hero. If you have seen Steve Lucas GT500 with over 1000hp doing 196 at Road america you kinda get it. I've never met him but his mechanic told.me they do one out lap one hot and one in lap. At my skill level I dont think that would cut it so id like at least 3 before it gets to hot. Last year at CMP with the 3v at 630ish whp i did 5 hot laps and it was fine, my brakes were the weak link.

Not really sure how this motor will hold up at more power but the tuner advised me not really to go over this amt and agreed on dimenishing returns over that. Its Joe Goodnough who runs his own biz now but was the lead tuner at VMP for 8 years.

Mike_FL said:

Great work! Hope I get to see this car at an event, would love a nose around

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Thanks! Ill be at CFR autox st lucie the 24th, then if it hasnt caught fire FIRM on the 14th for more intense testing.

spectrogrant said:

The 2nd heat exchanger is in the trunk ducted with isle 11 lowes A/C supplies and vented out the license plate which i normally have a larger vent for at races. it looks like sh*t but it or the fact it just has a ton of volumne really works. I also had to work around gridlife rules. Its super borderline tho lol. It has the added benefit of making the car very balanced with all thay weight in the rear.

As for the motor i think anything over 750whp it starts becoming a 1 lap hero. If you have seen Steve Lucas GT500 with over 1000hp doing 196 at Road america you kinda get it. I've never met him but his mechanic told.me they do one out lap one hot and one in lap. At my skill level I dont think that would cut it so id like at least 3 before it gets to hot. Last year at CMP with the 3v at 630ish whp i did 5 hot laps and it was fine, my brakes were the weak link.

Not really sure how this motor will hold up at more power but the tuner advised me not really to go over this amt and agreed on dimenishing returns over that. Its Joe Goodnough who runs his own biz now but was the lead tuner at VMP for 8 years.

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Wow. I have never seen anything like that! What is this? A second radiator in the trunk?

Have you thought about a larger pulley to lower the boost a little bit and maybe using the SmoothBoost Controller? The SmoothBoost lets you lower the boost however you want, so on a hot day you could back it down, and on a cool day maybe raise the boost. It also lets you apply the boost in a more linear fashion with your accelerator pedal, more boost the farther you push the pedal down, which could help exiting turns while giving you full boost on the straight once you are full throttle. But the big deal is that you could set the boost wherever you want it. If 10 psi is ending your session early, maybe setting the maximum boost to 7 or 8 psi will let you stay out longer.

Junkyard Dog said:

Have you thought about a larger pulley to lower the boost a little bit and maybe using the SmoothBoost Controller? The SmoothBoost lets you lower the boost however you want, so on a hot day you could back it down, and on a cool day maybe raise the boost. It also lets you apply the boost in a more linear fashion with your accelerator pedal, more boost the farther you push the pedal down, which could help exiting turns while giving you full boost on the straight once you are full throttle. But the big deal is that you could set the boost wherever you want it. If 10 psi is ending your session early, maybe setting the maximum boost to 7 or 8 psi will let you stay out longer.

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Huh that is pretty neat. Gonna ask Joe about that and also see how hard it is to drive. The 3v with the R2300 was a bit borderline in some corners as it wanted to light the tires without being super careful on throttle. thanks for sharing!

It should make it much easier to drive off the turns. No "surprise" boost. There is a Youtube video of a guy installing it on his supercharged car and it transformed from "being like an on off switch" to having the boost come on in a linear fashion with his gas pedal. He still thought it was too aggressive, as it applied full boost at 70% throttle, so he installed a rheostat and adjusted until it was 1:1 with boost only at 100% when the throttle was also fully open at 100%. It is hooked electronically to your throttle, using your ECU for control instead of vacuum. Using vacuum can cause boost to come on harshly and all at once, which can be less than desirable. It is better to be able to control boost with your right foot on the gas pedal.

But that was not the main reason I mentioned it. Instead, I am thinking this is a way to run cooler on the track. Compressing air creates heat. So just turn down the boost when you need or want to have a longer run or it is summer in Florida . . .

If you see this video below, he demonstrates just three settings (the knob has like 9 or 10 settings) and shows the boost from a low of 3.5 psi to a maximum of 18 psi (I am sure on a car that is not pulleyed down to 18 psi that the lowest setting would be lower than 3.5 psi). Just think about how much that sort of adjustability could help on a hot day on the track. Oil temperature too high at 8 psi? Concerned you are going to close the ring gaps or otherwise overheat your engine? Back it down to 6 psi, or 5, or 3.5 . . . and continue to have fun on the track. Then with a twist of the knob you can put it back up to 8 psi for the drive home, or for one last hero lap on track with a cooled off engine before calling it a day.

Got the car out to an autocross. Went well, no major issues. Car felt a tad heavier than before and perhaps the EPAS is a bit more numb but i dont really remember now after 7 months. It absolutely rips though. 775whp at AutoX is ridiculous, silly and a hoot. I was purposefully driving a tad aggressive to get used to the new balance points of the car. Still very easy to drive didnt even manage to spin it. The more weight you put in the back of these cars the better they handle though.

Anyway here are some pics and a vid. Not my best autocross work but its been awhile with this car at least. I usually autocross a Tesla model 3.

Alright, some final prep. I am hopefully "done". Beyond probably maintenance stuff. I did take it to a track day and proceeded to immediately destroy the splitter by missing a braking zone because the car was way faster lol. Somehow i just smashed the rods and supports and AJ's CF splitter held together. Other than that car seemed fine at the track day just way fast lol. Didnt really record anything as it was a shitty day as my futura trailer also ran into issues but their warranty support is superb.

Final things was hooking up the Haltech Oil Pressure sensor and configuring it. Car is running stock ECU, so im using the OBD connector for the IC7 and i wired in this TI 150 gauge. There was limited instructions on how to do this if anyone needs help. Seems to work nicely and i have warning lights now! Left the old one in for reference. The old one is on the oil cooling open side of the tstat.

Before the track day i had the tuner come by and retune the car on the 3.85 griptech pulley(vs 3.75). It wont affect much of anything since timing was so conservative but it runs about 12.5-13 psi of boost vs 14. So should run cooler.

Also putting on the Apex SM10RS Forged 18x10s, along with 285/30/18s RE71Rs. I went with that aspect to get it super low per AJ's recommendation. They are ~8lbs lighter ea than the equivalent tire on my 19x10 APEX flow formed. So for double the price it probably isnt worth it.

The Splitter is now set at 2.75 on the front and closer to 3ish on the wings. The plates on the rods are a bandaid after smashing the old rods through the splitter. So i really need a new splitter but this works.

Have one more autocross and maybe a track day before the first gridlife event, but probably just the autocross.

So . . . don't keep us in suspense! How long were you out on track, and what sort of temperatures did you see? Or did smashing the splitter end your track day early?

I have not yet seen a supercharged Coyote that can make full sessions. You listed 775 hp at the wheels, which is more like 870 at the flywheel. That means 2.2 million BTU/hr that you have to get into the coolant and then out of the coolant into the air. Your original engine in 2008 only produced 300 horsepower, which means it produced only 763k BTU/hr, so you are in a completely different league in terms of heat removal required.

I subscribed to your Youtube channel.

Can't wait to hear how it does on track.

spectrogrant said:

The 2nd heat exchanger is in the trunk ducted with isle 11 lowes A/C supplies and vented out the license plate which i normally have a larger vent for at races. it looks like sh*t but it or the fact it just has a ton of volumne really works. I also had to work around gridlife rules. Its super borderline tho lol. It has the added benefit of making the car very balanced with all thay weight in the rear.

As for the motor i think anything over 750whp it starts becoming a 1 lap hero. If you have seen Steve Lucas GT500 with over 1000hp doing 196 at Road america you kinda get it. I've never met him but his mechanic told.me they do one out lap one hot and one in lap. At my skill level I dont think that would cut it so id like at least 3 before it gets to hot. Last year at CMP with the 3v at 630ish whp i did 5 hot laps and it was fine, my brakes were the weak link.

Not really sure how this motor will hold up at more power but the tuner advised me not really to go over this amt and agreed on dimenishing returns over that. Its Joe Goodnough who runs his own biz now but was the lead tuner at VMP for 8 years.

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Junkyard Dog said:

Wow. I have never seen anything like that! What is this? A second radiator in the trunk?

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Since you left me mired in ignorance for over a month, I was pleased to discover your Youtube channel and finally figure out what you were talking about!



Now I understand what this rear heat exchanger is and how it works.

This is just for the blower and lowering the IAT. And it is where your back seat used to go. Got it.

Junkyard Dog said:

Since you left me mired in ignorance for over a month, I was pleased to discover your Youtube channel and finally figure out what you were talking about!



Now I understand what this rear heat exchanger is and how it works.

This is just for the blower and lowering the IAT. And it is where your back seat used to go. Got it.

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Junkyard Dog said:

So . . . don't keep us in suspense! How long were you out on track, and what sort of temperatures did you see? Or did smashing the splitter end your track day early?

I have not yet seen a supercharged Coyote that can make full sessions. You listed 775 hp at the wheels, which is more like 870 at the flywheel. That means 2.2 million BTU/hr that you have to get into the coolant and then out of the coolant into the air. Your original engine in 2008 only produced 300 horsepower, which means it produced only 763k BTU/hr, so you are in a completely different league in terms of heat removal required.

I subscribed to your Youtube channel.

Can't wait to hear how it does on track.

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Yeah i got to the track and my futura wouldnt lower, the winch power connectors had wiggled loose after some investigating thinking it was something else. Then i noticed my rear left locking pin had fallen out, meaning i was screwed if the winch ropes failed. So like 3 hours later i finally got on track and immediately went to pass a miata, went off line and went rallying. I already sent these pics to AJ cause i was so impressed that the splitter support bent before his splitter broke lol. Anyway the video isnt very exciting and was embarrassing as it was just a rookie mistake. They had just changed the FIRM and when a race track changes it really screws with your muscle memory, i was also pissed about the trailer breaking. Though futura sent everything to fix it for free and even sent spares. The FIRM lost some lawsuit with the FAA and cant use the north side of the track anymore. I dont like the new track layout but to their credit they are trying different ones. It just has crappy quickly made asphault at the moment.

Anywho it was a chilly day here in florida and i only did some 7/10ths laps after the splitter thing since i was running no aero. So not really a good test of the heat load. On the 3v though when it made 630ish whp, i never was able to get it to my come off temp of about 145 iat. its running x85 too which really helps. Usually hit the limit of the brakes first at about 3 or 4 hot laps. This season i put on some ducts though. They are a pia.

Probably someone who is an actual engineer could tell me why the rear heat exchanger thing works. I have been tempted to make a CO2 one and work with some of the propellent engineers at work. I work on spacecraft irl, but really just like microsoft excel. A CO2 non mixing heat exchanger would be lighter but would be like $40 a session in CO2.

How did you do the math on the BTUs? When i looked into the CO2 stuff i wasnt able to really find a great way to figure that out. Was moslty 2am google searches though.

spectrogrant said:

Anywho it was a chilly day here in florida and i only did some 7/10ths laps after the splitter thing since i was running no aero. So not really a good test of the heat load. On the 3v though when it made 630ish whp, i never was able to get it to my come off temp of about 145 iat. its running x85 too which really helps. Usually hit the limit of the brakes first at about 3 or 4 hot laps. This season i put on some ducts though. They are a pia.

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Wow, X85 has to get expensive.

I use more than 2 tanks of gas for one HPDE day. If I were running E85, I am sure it would be 3. And I am bone stock, so only 500 horsepower. 870 horsepower would surely burn more fuel. Using X85 jacks the price up to 12 bucks a gallon.

Ouch.


And when it comes to heat, I just realized we are talking about two different things. You are talking about IAT. I am talking about engine heat. Coolant, CHT, and oil temperature.

Obviously, ethanol helps with our IAT. I am not so sure it does anything for all the heat your 870 horsepower generates in the engine, though, which has to be removed from the engine with the radiator. In addition, your oil temperature has to be controlled, as well, and that is more difficult when running all out with 870 horsepower as compared to only 500 (like my car, where I can easily control the oil temperature at my driver ability level).

So the BTU - that is just how much heat the engine produces at that horsepower level. Some of it goes to push the pistons, turn the crank, and turn your rear tires. The rest of it transfers into the oil and the coolant.

Most supercharged S550 and S650 cars (and turbo S550 and S650 cars) cannot complete a session during an HPDE day due to heat. The oil and coolant get too hot.


Have you done anything other than the ducting to improve your brakes since you 3 laps out of them, or 4? Do you think that will solve the issue? What are you running for brakes?

Junkyard Dog said:

Fuel:​

Wow, X85 has to get expensive.

I use more than 2 tanks of gas for one HPDE day. If I were running E85, I am sure it would be 3. And I am bone stock, so only 500 horsepower. 870 horsepower would surely burn more fuel. Using X85 jacks the price up to 12 bucks a gallon.

Ouch.

Heat:​

And when it comes to heat, I just realized we are talking about two different things. You are talking about IAT. I am talking about engine heat. Coolant, CHT, and oil temperature.

Obviously, ethanol helps with our IAT. I am not so sure it does anything for all the heat your 870 horsepower generates in the engine, though, which has to be removed from the engine with the radiator. In addition, your oil temperature has to be controlled, as well, and that is more difficult when running all out with 870 horsepower as compared to only 500 (like my car, where I can easily control the oil temperature at my driver ability level).

So the BTU - that is just how much heat the engine produces at that horsepower level. Some of it goes to push the pistons, turn the crank, and turn your rear tires. The rest of it transfers into the oil and the coolant.

Most supercharged S550 and S650 cars (and turbo S550 and S650 cars) cannot complete a session during an HPDE day due to heat. The oil and coolant get too hot.

Brakes:​

Have you done anything other than the ducting to improve your brakes since you 3 laps out of them, or 4? Do you think that will solve the issue. What are you running for brakes?

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Yeah i buy the X85 in 5gal bins and bring them to the track. I bring 20gallons plus a full tank. No idea if thatll be enough this year was to much last year. Ill probably bring 30 to the first event just incase. But yeah i just overspec the cooling because seat time is king and im just a weekend warrior so im never going to get enough seat time to compete against sponsored folks who do it ever weekend. I probably do 5-10 autoXs a year with 4 gridlife events plus maybe a track day or 2 a year.

The full build list is below. But Girodisc rotors and GLOC R12 pads, this is on the 6 piston 13/14 GT500 kit. The brake feel is terrible, lots of posts about it here. I think i ran R10 last season. Trying R12. You can mitigate the crappy brake feel by just replacing the pads early or placing inserts as they wear down. The more the they wear down the brake feel gets all weird.

I have the 13/14 master cylinder in my closet but it requires custom brake lines as the hookup is on the opposite side. Then it requires draining the ABS module which i cant activate dealer purge mode anymore remotely. I need to find someone that knows how to do that manually or just get a independent ABS system.

Anyway i have no idea about the brakes. Enduro cars last forever with cooling but they are way lighter so it might be much better or just about the same since ill be braking from higher speeds.

Junkyard Dog said:

So the BTU - that is just how much heat the engine produces at that horsepower level. Some of it goes to push the pistons, turn the crank, and turn your rear tires. The rest of it transfers into the oil and the coolant.

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A bunch of the heat also goes out the exhaust.

I’ve been on pump e85 for over a decade…. Much cheaper and plenty good. I have a meter in the car that shows ethanol content so I find the stations with the best fuel, bring jugs and fill them. I used the same fuel in my 700/700 blown stroker at 21 psi.

spectrogrant said:

The full build list is below. But Girodisc rotors and GLOC R12 pads, this is on the 6 piston 13/14 GT500 kit. The brake feel is terrible, lots of posts about it here. I think i ran R10 last season. Trying R12. You can mitigate the crappy brake feel by just replacing the pads early or placing inserts as they wear down. The more the they wear down the brake feel gets all weird.

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Interesting, never thought of that. TMO delivers again.

spectrogrant said:

I have the 13/14 master cylinder in my closet but it requires custom brake lines as the hookup is on the opposite side. Then it requires draining the ABS module which i cant activate dealer purge mode anymore remotely. I need to find someone that knows how to do that manually or just get a independent ABS system.

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Are you familiar with FORScan? It has ABS bleed function and can also be used for other things like turning off your truck's double honk feature when closing the door while the engine is running.

Alright here is what yall have been waiting for. First TA event. It went well. Placed 4th out of 17 cars in a ultra competitive class. Grid Life Street mod. Basically the whole weekend time qualifies you for a podium sprint. Top 5 times go into the sprint. In the sprint you get 3 hot laps. If you go 4 off you automatically get 5th.

I placed 4th in the sprint and lost out a trophy by .3 seconds!

Car did well. The spring rate ended up being a bit to soft at 140mph and my splitter scraped alot (650ftlb). I also ended up not getting all the air out of the ABS system and i almost ate it once when the front left wheel locked up. I was able to bleed the system at the track and adjust the splitter a bit. The few sessions when it was 90F i could only do 2 hot laps before i got to 145 IAT.

My times were very ok. i did not beat my pb but it was much hotter and more dusty than last year. I still felt a bit rusty from not tracking much in almost 7-10 months. i think my best time was a 1:43.1. Last year it was 1:42.2. My optimal this weekend was a 1:41.2. It had more in it with more adjustments and most importantly just practice.

Here is my Podium sprint run. I went for 2 hot laps. The RE71RZ were never really faster on the 3rd hot lap. My catalyst wasnt working on this run. If i had known i hadnt gotten a great time i probably would have just totally sent it on the 3rd and killed myself lol. But being conservative during the sprint was probably a good strategy.
This is filmed with a DJI Action 6 with dual DJI mic 3's. One on the bumper, one in the intake.


Here is when my brakes locked up. Pants were shid

That's one hell of a build. Gratz on reaching your build goal in your first outing. Sounds like you are looking into exciting season !

LOL, I love that whine when you are on the throttle!

But you gotta go easier on the throttle until you get the steering wheel straight, lol.

The braking video was scary. No ABS on this set up? You did a very good job catching the car and keeping anything bad from happening.

So here is a question, if you know yet, how many laps can you get before oil or coolant or CHT gets too hot?