This is the Build Thread for Cliff II. Reply below.

It's been quite some time since I posted here, but thought I'd post some updates on my street/time attack build S650 GT!

For some background, I bought this car last year when I, tired of trying to fit an F-150 into Chicago parking, decided to swap it out for a pony car. I had no plans to track the car at first, but after one track day at Gingerman - I was hooked. Now, 1+ year and a lot of blood, sweat and money that we don't talk to the wife about later...the car's moved along quite a way.

The car is a '24 GT with a 10R80 automatic (Huge shoutout to @flyhalf whose posts convinced me an auto could perform on track) I've been building this car as something I could still daily, but also compete in the Tuner class of SCCA Time Attack. So, I've left the engine untouched but added a lot of new goodies to help it on track. Here's what I have so far and my thoughts:

1) I competed in SCCA Time Attack last August @ Autobahn, and I immediately knew I needed to upgrade the suspension.

- Koni GTS Coilovers: So far, a really solid dual use coilover. I've experienced more NVH riding the car but nothing unmanagable. With the right camber and damper setting, the car sticks the turns far better, making it a lot easier to put the power down. Damper settings aren't as comfortable as OEM, but are managable as well.
- Eibach Sway Bar and MMR Relocation Bracket: With the coilovers, this has been a huge game changer. Far more responsive on turns

2) After some track days this season, engine cooling has been the big priority: I found that most times I could only get 1-1.5 laps down before the car got too hot.

- Dark Horse Radiator and Fan: Installing this Friday - I was between this and a Mishimoto radiator but decided to run this first.
- MMR Engine Oil Cooler: Just recently installed. I will say, this took a while to install (not MMR's fault, that filter block is in a tough spot to get to, and the cuts on my hand to tell the tale). Once put together build was solid, and we'll see how it performs soon!
- Engine Tune - I've been working with Palm Beach Dyno to tune the engine to account for the cooling. Since I have similar cooling now to a DH, should be able to use those tables to get a better inferred temperature.

- Cosmetics: Do they make me faster? No. Do they look cool? Opinion varies. Do they make me feel like I'm working on the car when I can't afford new parts? Yes.

The next big test for the build is Time Attack Aug 1-2 at Autobahn for Round 2. A combination of limp mode, poor handling, 300 tires and driver talent left me with some pretty shoddy low 1:40s on track last year. Here's hoping that work on the sim rig, car and some RE-71RZs will bring that time down considerably - anything in the mid 30s would be a win!

All in all been super happy to be working on the car so far. I grew up watching my grandpa race out west and now having the means to do it myself has been really rewarding. And there's still plenty more to come. Next year I'm going to focus on turning the car into a dedicated TA build, so mods on the menu are:

- 1/2 Roll cage, Race Seat, Harness
- Transmission cooler (1 or 2 - I think putting one in the lower right fender panel opposite the oil cooler might be interesting)
- Differential cooler
- Borla Exhaust
- Additional Venting (Fender and Hood)
- Upgraded bushings
- Upgraded Aero - Splitter, Canards and Rear Wing
- Carbon Fiber Components (Ceiling to start, then we'll see from there)
- Upgraded Electronics (going to try to see if I can get an AIM Dash set up in front of the OE displays)
- And mayyybeee some new coilovers with higher spring rates and more damper adjustability

So yeah, a long way to go. We'll see what I'm able to get to over time but excited for what the road brings!

Photo credits due where they're due: All from the talented https://www.instagram.com/n.b.shots/

I think cooling will continue to be a priority for you. My Dark Horse has a 6-speed, and is very good out of the box. I've talked to people with the 10R80 in their Dark Horses and they have heat issues, and have seen threads that seem similar. Not insurmountable, just more heat load to deal with.

When you say "too hot", what does that mean exactly?

While I'm overall happy with the cooling on mine, I am installing a GTD style hood primarily with hopes of getting some more cooling air and lowering temps a bit. We'll see how it does.

One thing I have not noticed is what Class you want to run in since often adding a ton of mods can put one in a group of cars with little chance of doing well. This is a key to determine what mods you may want to add and often it can mean some items will not benefit you. Good luck and the RE71RZs are a very important mod to go fast.

Bill Pemberton said:

One thing I have not noticed is what Class you want to run in since often adding a ton of mods can put one in a group of cars with little chance of doing well. This is a key to determine what mods you may want to add and often it can mean some items will not benefit you. Good luck and the RE71RZs are a very important mod to go fast.

Click to expand...

So far I've been keeping everything in class for Tuner in SCCA Time Attack - next year who knows. I'm weighing Gridlife or NASA depending on schedules and what I can make. But definitely agree - unless I tear down to the frame I'm not trying to get into the Unlimited type classes.

TheTed said:

I think cooling will continue to be a priority for you. My Dark Horse has a 6-speed, and is very good out of the box. I've talked to people with the 10R80 in their Dark Horses and they have heat issues, and have seen threads that seem similar. Not insurmountable, just more heat load to deal with.

When you say "too hot", what does that mean exactly?

While I'm overall happy with the cooling on mine, I am installing a GTD style hood primarily with hopes of getting some more cooling air and lowering temps a bit. We'll see how it does.

Click to expand...

So for me, it took about 1-2 laps before my (inferred) oil temp was reading 275+. After that I had to keep one eye on the temps and go less than full throttle. Agree with the 10R80, it looks like this will be my next battle. I think an additional front cooler and maybe another on the opposite side of the engine oil cooler may set me up well.

Will def keep everyone posted on how this weekend's time attack goes!

From my experience on track, you're hitting those high oil temps a lot faster than I am, even on hot days with the AC on. So, using my Dark Horse as a baseline, there's room for improvement.

Keep track of OAT while doing this, since that has a big impact as well.

robbgoesracing said:

Dark Horse Radiator and Fan: Installing this Friday - I was between this and a Mishimoto radiator but decided to run this first.

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, did your research lead you to any evidence that the Mishimoto performs better than the Dark Horse radiator?

TheTed said:

From my experience on track, you're hitting those high oil temps a lot faster than I am, even on hot days with the AC on. So, using my Dark Horse as a baseline, there's room for improvement.

Keep track of OAT while doing this, since that has a big impact as well.

Click to expand...

TheTed, he did not have an oil cooler. Your car has an oil cooler right in front of the driver side tire, with its own opening in the front of the car feeding it fresh air to take heat out of the oil before it goes back into the engine all cooled off.

He has an oil cooler now, and hopefully he can get the engine to recognize it so that the ECU does not keep thinking he has no cooler.

robbgoesracing said:

Engine Tune - I've been working with Palm Beach Dyno to tune the engine to account for the cooling. Since I have similar cooling now to a DH, should be able to use those tables to get a better inferred temperature.

Click to expand...

I guess I thought this would be an easy plug in these days. Is it still difficult to accomplish?

Junkyard Dog said:

TheTed, he did not have an oil cooler. Your car has an oil cooler right in front of the drive side tire, with its own opening in the front of the car feeding it fresh air to take heat out of the oil before it goes back into the engine all cooled off.

He has an oil cooler now, and hopefully he can get the engine to recognize it so that the ECU does not keep thinking he has no cooler.

Click to expand...

I know he didn't have an oil cooler before, I was just making the a point of comparison for his reference.

The improved cooling of the DH vs. the GT was a large part of why I bought the DH, knowing my intended use of the car.

Junkyard Dog said:

Out of curiosity, did your research lead you to any evidence that the Mishimoto performs better than the Dark Horse radiator?

Click to expand...

I picked it because it has also came with an upgraded fan, and the price was a little lower. My thought being I can always upgrade to a Mishimoto if this still doesn't provide enough cooling.

Before that though, my next thing I'm going to do is get some chicken wire and replace the front plastic grill to maximize airflow.

Also planning on getting an oil temp sensor installed soon - I'll post back here after time attack this weekend to provide an update on how everything worked as well!

robbgoesracing said:

Before that though, my next thing I'm going to do is get some chicken wire and replace the front plastic grill to maximize airflow.

Click to expand...

I thought about this (as listed in the Dark Horse R service bulletins), but decided I didn't like the look that would have. I may change my mind eventually, but I wanted to start with hood modifications.

Another service bulletin it has is for cutting up the shroud to get more airflow at speed. That's another one I didn't want to do, since that would probably hurt cooling at a stop, but makes sense on the dedicated race cars.

I have a thread on the GTD style hood I bought. Next track day is in about a week and a half, so we'll see how it does - temperature will play a factor. The results may be of interest to you.

robbgoesracing said:

I picked it because it has also came with an upgraded fan, and the price was a little lower. My thought being I can always upgrade to a Mishimoto if this still doesn't provide enough cooling.

Before that though, my next thing I'm going to do is get some chicken wire and replace the front plastic grill to maximize airflow.

Click to expand...

Just FYI - on track the fan and shroud are just in the way. Once you are rolling, all they do is restrict air from passing through. The fan and shroud are for when sitting still idling or driving at very, very low speed.

What I am trying to say is that an "upgraded fan" will not help with cooling off the engine during track sessions.

robbgoesracing said:

It's been quite some time since I posted here, but thought I'd post some updates on my street/time attack build S650 GT!

For some background, I bought this car last year when I, tired of trying to fit an F-150 into Chicago parking, decided to swap it out for a pony car. I had no plans to track the car at first, but after one track day at Gingerman - I was hooked. Now, 1+ year and a lot of blood, sweat and money that we don't talk to the wife about later...the car's moved along quite a way.

The car is a '24 GT with a 10R80 automatic (Huge shoutout to @flyhalf whose posts convinced me an auto could perform on track) I've been building this car as something I could still daily, but also compete in the Tuner class of SCCA Time Attack. So, I've left the engine untouched but added a lot of new goodies to help it on track. Here's what I have so far and my thoughts:

1) I competed in SCCA Time Attack last August @ Autobahn, and I immediately knew I needed to upgrade the suspension.

- Koni GTS Coilovers: So far, a really solid dual use coilover. I've experienced more NVH riding the car but nothing unmanagable. With the right camber and damper setting, the car sticks the turns far better, making it a lot easier to put the power down. Damper settings aren't as comfortable as OEM, but are managable as well.
- Eibach Sway Bar and MMR Relocation Bracket: With the coilovers, this has been a huge game changer. Far more responsive on turns

2) After some track days this season, engine cooling has been the big priority: I found that most times I could only get 1-1.5 laps down before the car got too hot.

- Dark Horse Radiator and Fan: Installing this Friday - I was between this and a Mishimoto radiator but decided to run this first.
- MMR Engine Oil Cooler: Just recently installed. I will say, this took a while to install (not MMR's fault, that filter block is in a tough spot to get to, and the cuts on my hand to tell the tale). Once put together build was solid, and we'll see how it performs soon!
- Engine Tune - I've been working with Palm Beach Dyno to tune the engine to account for the cooling. Since I have similar cooling now to a DH, should be able to use those tables to get a better inferred temperature.

- Cosmetics: Do they make me faster? No. Do they look cool? Opinion varies. Do they make me feel like I'm working on the car when I can't afford new parts? Yes.

The next big test for the build is Time Attack Aug 1-2 at Autobahn for Round 2. A combination of limp mode, poor handling, 300 tires and driver talent left me with some pretty shoddy low 1:40s on track last year. Here's hoping that work on the sim rig, car and some RE-71RZs will bring that time down considerably - anything in the mid 30s would be a win!

All in all been super happy to be working on the car so far. I grew up watching my grandpa race out west and now having the means to do it myself has been really rewarding. And there's still plenty more to come. Next year I'm going to focus on turning the car into a dedicated TA build, so mods on the menu are:

- 1/2 Roll cage, Race Seat, Harness
- Transmission cooler (1 or 2 - I think putting one in the lower right fender panel opposite the oil cooler might be interesting)
- Differential cooler
- Borla Exhaust
- Additional Venting (Fender and Hood)
- Upgraded bushings
- Upgraded Aero - Splitter, Canards and Rear Wing
- Carbon Fiber Components (Ceiling to start, then we'll see from there)
- Upgraded Electronics (going to try to see if I can get an AIM Dash set up in front of the OE displays)
- And mayyybeee some new coilovers with higher spring rates and more damper adjustability

So yeah, a long way to go. We'll see what I'm able to get to over time but excited for what the road brings!

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Click to expand...

So I am looking at your photos, and they shot the standard OEM air vent just above the back of the radiator, the same one that is on my Dark Horse. Ford installs this vented hood on non-performance package GT cars with no additional cooling, i.e., the base GT?

EDIT: Nevermind.

I did a search, and apparently all GTs get the vented hood for additional heat extraction from the radiator.