I don't think I'm gonna make any more progress as far as the issues my car has -- and I don't think the issues I have are so bad as to warrant engine replacement. My buddies here locally who are also car guys tend to think I'm nitpicking with this car. I don't think so... but it may be time to move on. So I started thinking, how many of the mod goals I have would be OK to run on an engine that has minor issues? I came up with headers. Installing headers would serve a dual purpose also as I could rule out exhaust leaks from my list of potential problem sources. Not that I know anything about it but I'd like to think the car would run better overall with headers... And in the case that my engine does go, I can still keep the headers.

So what headers would I run? Well, I worked so hard to maintain the side pipes on this car, so -- I'd be looking at either the Kooks Boss or the ARH Boss headers. You guys seem to have a higher opinion of the ARH headers, but they have an X-pipe whereas the Kooks has an H-pipe. I think I'd prefer the H but I might go with the ARH based on you guys's recommendations... I'd be getting the more streetable versions... probably 1-3/4" with the 400 cell cats.

So questions... Is ceramic coating worth it? How about header wrap? Both? I'd be having them professionally installed and would replace while-you're-in-there's while we're in there. Probably engine mounts, starter, OEM header studs and OEM gaskets. Any starter recommendations? Is stock OK? Or should I get one of those mini-starters? I have 3 tuning options now so I think I'll be good on that.

Any pitfalls I should know about? I see some guys recommending teflon tape for the header studs... How about heat management? I've seen other people adding heat tape to things near the headers... My hood is not vented. I'd like to but right now it gets parked outdoors...

Pretty sure that cams are out of the question for this car right now... maybe E85 is doable? Anyone think I should re-evaluate my life choices?

Hmm, this seems to be the ticket in regards to the starter...

I was a proud owner of a Kooks setup with x pipe... until the collector spike launched its self down the exhaust and ended up who knows were. After that. bought a set of ebay chinese LT headers and my builder sawed then end off and added a very nice custom collector that was tuned to suck... (in a good way.. better stop.) To be honest the crappy ebay header outperformed the Kooks and looks better made with better welds etc. The headers cost me US$256 for the pair and the collector was another $500. Its been going strong for years, very happy with them. Since then, they are the only headers the shop has done and he must have a dozen cars over 500rwhp with them installed

Ceramic coating... it's fine. It works, but it's expensive. So is it worth it? Debatable. Header wrap, no. Moisture collects between the wrap and the header and contributes to early corrosion.

I am not 100% pleased with the Kooks fitment, but it's not a terrible system. It's not a true long tube, more of a mid tube length. Given what I know now I'd probably go for the ARH kit just to see if it's any better.

I've crewed on cars with Kooks and also ARH, I take the latter over the former for a competition car. For a street car, I'd prolly bite on a set of BBK shorties in ceramic, because I've run them before and they stay tucked up under the car, I've had good luck with them on street cars.

Mad Hatter said:

I was a proud owner of a Kooks setup with x pipe... until the collector spike launched its self down the exhaust and ended up who knows were. After that. bought a set of ebay chinese LT headers and my builder sawed then end off and added a very nice custom collector that was tuned to suck... (in a good way.. better stop.) To be honest the crappy ebay header outperformed the Kooks and looks better made with better welds etc. The headers cost me US$256 for the pair and the collector was another $500. Its been going strong for years, very happy with them. Since then, they are the only headers the shop has done and he must have a dozen cars over 500rwhp with them installed

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I've heard you say that -- and honestly I might consider it but there's gotta be 50 different manufacturers of those things. With my luck I'd pick the wrong one and they wouldn't even fit! Mind showing me which ones you get?

Do you coat them or wrap them or anything? Or just the collector mod?

mycroft said:

Ceramic coating... it's fine. It works, but it's expensive. So is it worth it? Debatable. Header wrap, no. Moisture collects between the wrap and the header and contributes to early corrosion.

I am not 100% pleased with the Kooks fitment, but it's not a terrible system. It's not a true long tube, more of a mid tube length. Given what I know now I'd probably go for the ARH kit just to see if it's any better.

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I was thinking that might be the case. So wrap is OK for race cars that live in a garage and have constant maintenance I guess, eh?

blacksheep-1 said:

I've crewed on cars with Kooks and also ARH, I take the latter over the former for a competition car. For a street car, I'd prolly bite on a set of BBK shorties in ceramic, because I've run them before and they stay tucked up under the car, I've had good luck with them on street cars.

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BBK, huh? I've asked some tuners about them and they always balk. Probably trying to sell me something but... I've also seen here on TMO people complaining that the coating BBK uses comes off quick!

I wonder -- could I get any old brand of headers and have somebody weld them to some universal cats and my factory Boss H-pipe (which has already been welded to my stock cats so I'm not losing anything important)? It seems possible but if the width of the two is off it could make for some weirdness...

I've had good luck with them... and yes, you can get sets coated but that's an added expense. The problem I've seen with stainless headers is they crack, the ones on the older GT4 were (I think) made by Kooks and we were welding the x pipes back together all the time, The ARH, I've never seen crack. There really is a difference between track and street headers, the street headers should be thicker, therefore more robust. I would keep the headers separate from the rest of the exhaust system, fully welded systems are real hard to work around, somebody some place, prolly makes a complete system for your car.

Functionality-speaking, either leave the headers bare or use this. https://swaintech.com/race-coatings/race-coating-descriptions/white-lightning-exhaust-coatings/

BackInBlack said:

I've heard you say that -- and honestly I might consider it but there's gotta be 50 different manufacturers of those things. With my luck I'd pick the wrong one and they wouldn't even fit! Mind showing me which ones you get?

Do you coat them or wrap them or anything? Or just the collector mod?

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Sure! I had 1 3/4 to 1 7/8th stepped headers for US$250 but can't find them on ebay. I asked at the shop what they are using now and they gave me this link. Actually they are getting another shipment ready now as they have been very popular.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/405072562980
They have put them in gen1,2 and 3 cars. But they dont fit the gen 4

Just the collector was added. You can find collectors online or have them made up. The headers are stainless so we left them unpainted and without wraps. Since the headers are only US$195, you can go wild on the collector!!

Just a note. The BBK headers that I have seen have no collector to speak of....

My suggestion is always to peer into the merge collector area when making header purchasing decisions. That's usually where companies hide their fabrication crimes and gives you a quick indication if you're getting any value for your money.

mwjscn said:

My suggestion is always to peer into the merge collector area when making header purchasing decisions. That's usually where companies hide their fabrication crimes and gives you a quick indication if you're getting any value for your money.

View attachment 111975

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Yup, 100% in agreement with that... Most are pretty dam sad. Even Kooks.

While I am tempted to try Mad Hatter's setup, I think the welding to the OEM H-pipe to retain the side pipes part might be a gamble. I'm thinking ARH with the Swain coating on the header portion...

I'm mostly thinking about the coating b/c this is primarily a street car -- will see traffic, etc. and I want to cut down on maintenance of the underhood plastics and rubbers... Will headers increase engine temps? Does this make an air oil cooler important? I'm gonna guess that isn't necessary... I've seen intake temps of 130F idling in traffic on a 100+F day (stock airbox). Average idling in traffic intake temps are below 120F. But the coolant temps never go above about 215F and usually stay below 200F...

I would assume that ground clearance with headers is about the same as the side pipes, yeah? Right now, with my OEM+ setup with 18" wheels, 275/40 tires, Koni Yellows and Steeda Boss springs my clearance is pretty good. The side pipes occasionally scrape on the biggest speed bumps but that's about it. I think I could gain another 1/2" if I went to 19" wheels which is something I've been considering. I want to be low but I also don't want to destroy everything on speed bumps. I think I'm a hair lower than OEM ride height right now. I know I sit lower than the OEM Gen3's I see in the parking lot. Their front splitters can clear the curb while mine won't.

Is your goal to keep the OEM side pipes, and therefore the factory H mid-pipe? It's an important consideration because I believe almost all of the long tube header options don't work with the factory mid-pipes since they come much further back under the vehicle, unless you've already committed to making something custom and chopping up the factory stuff to make it fit.

Side pipes were nice to listen to, but they had the car black flagged from most tracks down here.

mwjscn said:

Is your goal to keep the OEM side pipes, and therefore the factory H mid-pipe? It's an important consideration because I believe almost all of the long tube header options don't work with the factory mid-pipes since they come much further back under the vehicle, unless you've already committed to making something custom and chopping up the factory stuff to make it fit.

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I'd be cool with chopping up the OEM mid-pipe but I think it'd be a gamble whether I could find someone to weld it up to fit properly...

I might remove the side pipes one day but for now I put a lot of work into repairing them and getting them to work properly with the cutouts. Also drilled a hole in the center console for the switch. Just don't want to waste the effort right now mostly.

Isn't a lot of the hp gain simply in getting rid of the cats (or going high flow)? Why not keep stock manifolds and side pipes and just replace cats with your choice of high flow cats or test pipes? I seem to recall some back-to-back dyno tests of that sort of stuff from many years ago and a huge percentage of the gain of headers could be attained just with cat replacement.

I guess you can say its a sum of all the additions you do to your car. For example, if you do a Cobrajet manifold with 67mm twin throttle bodies and a huge CAI, you have to improve the exhaust end as well or you do not get much to show for it. At the track is where the real difference appears. The none LTH cars can not compete with the ones that do have them. In the Boss case, you already have a better manifold and improving the TB with a CAI means that the LTH becomes more important. Typical numbers are around 435rwhp just with that (and the tune...).