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170 degree thermostat?

332
0
Opinions? Pros/cons?
http://reischeperformance.com/

I really don't think it will help with the problem running hot on the track...it may just delay it half a lap or so. In addition to opening up air flow I'm thinking of replacing coolant with distilled water and Red Line water wetter for the track season.
 

BLAZN BOSS

I stopped working on cars in 96 so I am going on some old tech but Im pretty sure still applicable. I believe that the computers look for the cat to reach 195 degrees before the car will go to closed loop. By the exhaust temps should be up and the computer takes over. If you lower the cooling temp then you probably going to get a code. The next step of this you will probably get temps up as you track your car..........eventually your cars coolant will get to 170, open the thermostat and the water in the radiator will go back to the motor..........only to reach 170 again.....the cycle will start again but taking less time each time because the water wont stay in the radiator long enough to cool considerably............each cycle will become shorter as you push the car harder........eventually the water temp will equalize, and will start staying 170.........resetting the code, and then not cool down enough........water temps will rise and then the radiator just becomes a path for the water , not a cooling spot..........overheating soon will find its way to you. I may be wrong.........but I dont think so, at least on the cooling part.
 
On my hayabusa I ran dei radiator relief now my bike was 265 hp 100 of that was nos so ran hard ment ran real hard check this out it may help you some. http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0703_turp_cooling_system_additives/viewall.html
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
ChuckP said:
Opinions? Pros/cons?
http://reischeperformance.com/

I really don't think it will help with the problem running hot on the track...it may just delay it half a lap or so. In addition to opening up air flow I'm thinking of replacing coolant with distilled water and Red Line water wetter for the track season.

Colder Tstat will not help but Plain water is a much better conductor of heat than water/antifreeze. The downside of just water is the boiling point will be lower than the water/antifreeze. Definently worth a try and I have thought of trying it also. You might conside Pencool 2000 instead of water wetter.

Peter
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
13
Connecticut
Correct, they run distilled water. I believe they use additives like water wetter. Royal Purple and Joe Gibbs racing also have additives.
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,522
2,329
Arizona, USA
Step 1: Get a high-flow grille.
Step 2: Drain 36oz of coolant out of your radiator.
Step 3: Pour 3 bottles of Water Wetter into your coolant overflow tank.
Step 4: Enjoy never having an overheating issue on track ever.

THE END
 
175
0
BLAZN BOSS said:
I stopped working on cars in 96 so I am going on some old tech but Im pretty sure still applicable. I believe that the computers look for the cat to reach 195 degrees before the car will go to closed loop. By the exhaust temps should be up and the computer takes over. If you lower the cooling temp then you probably going to get a code. The next step of this you will probably get temps up as you track your car..........eventually your cars coolant will get to 170, open the thermostat and the water in the radiator will go back to the motor..........only to reach 170 again.....the cycle will start again but taking less time each time because the water wont stay in the radiator long enough to cool considerably............each cycle will become shorter as you push the car harder........eventually the water temp will equalize, and will start staying 170.........resetting the code, and then not cool down enough........water temps will rise and then the radiator just becomes a path for the water , not a cooling spot..........overheating soon will find its way to you. I may be wrong.........but I dont think so, at least on the cooling part.

This is partially correct. Yes the computer wont give full power till the car is 185 degrees so if a 170 thermostat alone kept the temperature at a 170 it wouldn't have full power. But where you're wrong the water doesn't have to sit in the radiator to cool down and the many cars run without a thermostat and work fine but they are more sensitive to ambient temperature. For example knowing that a car runs most efficiently at say 230 degrees they block the radiator till that temperature is arrived at on a particular race day. In the boss the thermostat is 196 I think so when running on the track and temperature is 200 the thermostat is open all the time putting a 210 thermostat would not make the car run cooler. Increasing water flow would not make the car run cooler. Increasing air flow through the radiator would increase cooling, making the radiator larger so that the water has more surface and time to dissipate heat would make the car run cooler. Simply slowing the flow down doesn't help. It might cure cavitation problems but that is another issue.
 
BossJockey said:
I think most race teams do not run antifreeze. I'll ask next Saturday what if any additive they add to the water.

Antifreeze is not legal for wheel to wheel racing, at least not at the local tracks here. It is very slippery when it spills. IIRC most of the local tracks don't allow it at all for bikes for that reason, since they have a lot of crashes.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
13
Connecticut
ArizonaGT said:
Step 1: Get a high-flow grille.
Step 2: Drain 36oz of coolant out of your radiator.
Step 3: Pour 3 bottles of Water Wetter into your coolant overflow tank.
Step 4: Enjoy never having an overheating issue on track ever.

THE END

3 bottles ??
 

BLAZN BOSS

908ssp said:
BLAZN BOSS said:
I stopped working on cars in 96 so I am going on some old tech but Im pretty sure still applicable. I believe that the computers look for the cat to reach 195 degrees before the car will go to closed loop. By the exhaust temps should be up and the computer takes over. If you lower the cooling temp then you probably going to get a code. The next step of this you will probably get temps up as you track your car..........eventually your cars coolant will get to 170, open the thermostat and the water in the radiator will go back to the motor..........only to reach 170 again.....the cycle will start again but taking less time each time because the water wont stay in the radiator long enough to cool considerably............each cycle will become shorter as you push the car harder........eventually the water temp will equalize, and will start staying 170.........resetting the code, and then not cool down enough........water temps will rise and then the radiator just becomes a path for the water , not a cooling spot..........overheating soon will find its way to you. I may be wrong.........but I dont think so, at least on the cooling part.

This is partially correct. Yes the computer wont give full power till the car is 185 degrees so if a 170 thermostat alone kept the temperature at a 170 it wouldn't have full power. But where you're wrong the water doesn't have to sit in the radiator to cool down and the many cars run without a thermostat and work fine but they are more sensitive to ambient temperature. For example knowing that a car runs most efficiently at say 230 degrees they block the radiator till that temperature is arrived at on a particular race day. In the boss the thermostat is 196 I think so when running on the track and temperature is 200 the thermostat is open all the time putting a 210 thermostat would not make the car run cooler. Increasing water flow would not make the car run cooler. Increasing air flow through the radiator would increase cooling, making the radiator larger so that the water has more surface and time to dissipate heat would make the car run cooler. Simply slowing the flow down doesn't help. It might cure cavitation problems but that is another issue.
The one thing I'm sure of is that water needs to stay in the radiator for a short period to cool.....thats one of the purposes of the thermostat. The race engines I've built for track use have a restrictor in the thermostat housing so the water slows long enough to cool . at the rate water passs in a street engine at high RPM with a 170 thermostst the radiator would become a large hose instead of a heat exchanger. Thats why when "backyard" mechanics leave thermostats out in the summer time cars overheat and in the winter they have no heat because the water doesnt stay in the block long enough.
 
No thermostat is bad. I forgot to reinstall one after doing a flush in my 69 Charger and it overheated the first time I took it out.
 
332
0
Pretty much what I thought. Today's engines are designed to run at higher temps so I question the increased performance claim Reisch makes for their 170 degree thermostat.

As for coolant and racing, most sanctioning bodies do not allow coolant in a race situation because it is VERY slippery. When I ran my Porsche 944 Turbo at the Rennsport race at Daytona several years ago they checked to make sure there was no anti-freeze in the cooling system.

The big pain in swapping between coolant and distilled water and back again is making sure you get all the air out of the system when you make the change.

Thanks for the input!
 
Part of the reason they run them hot now is emissions, not performance. Like how they run a lot of cars lean to get the exhaust temps up. But if the car is set up to run hot, the spark plugs and timing etc., then running it cooler may not always be a performance boost.
 
175
0
CaliMR said:
No thermostat is bad. I forgot to reinstall one after doing a flush in my 69 Charger and it overheated the first time I took it out.

True but not because it closes but because the size of the thermostat limits the water flow preventing cavitation in the pump. A 170 thermostat is open continuously when the water temperature is 170+ so what does it do except control continuously flow. By the way I had a conversation about this with an engineer at Bell intercoolers and he laughed about the old wives tale about water passing too fast.
 
If the cavitation is true, it would explain a lot. But my understanding of how it works is that high pressure downstream is the main cause, not low pressure downstream. But my understanding is just from dealing with it on boats. But I was talking about no thermostat, since somebody mentioned it, not running a low thermostat. I ended up putting a lower thermostat in the Charger and it worked well.

If the water spends less time in the radiator, it will disperse less heat. That is just physics. But the question is whether the increased volume of water passing through makes up for the lower heat loss per volume assuming the flow is higher than stock (so no thermo, not a lower temp one). I don't know enough about it to know how that balances out. It is also a different question whether a modern motor with stock ecu and plugs, etc will benefit from running at lower temp. If the motor is modded and tuned for lower temp, there is potentially power to be made, but a stock motor is probably not set up to take advantage of it.
 

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