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BOSS 429?

Do you think it's possible to bore and stroke the new 351 to 429 cubes? I'm just thinking that there is no way Ford is going to let GM stomp the BOSS 302's or the GT500's with the new Z28 track prepped car. The new platform would totally be a great place to do yet another 2 year limmited production run of the BOSS 429. What do you think?
 
Hi all,

I can certainly see that happening. I'm not sure how Ford would engineer the motor, but the retro concept behind it all would be great. I had a friend who owned a 1969 Boss 429, and it was a very impressive car in the day...when it stayed together and didn't blow out head gaskets (O-rings).

I would really love to see that contrast... a 302 S/R type model, but fitted with a 700 hp 429 C.I. mid-size block. set up with the same limited to virtually no options...to run against the new Z-28. Hopefully, they will build it with a more conventional tranny, such and a ratio selectable Richmond 6-speed and a conventional scatter shield.

Time will tell....


Take care,

JJ
 
Jason said:
Do you think it's possible to bore and stroke the new 351 to 429 cubes? I'm just thinking that there is no way Ford is going to let GM stomp the BOSS 302's or the GT500's with the new Z28 track prepped car. The new platform would totally be a great place to do yet another 2 year limited production run of the BOSS 429. What do you think?
While I'm sure it's possible it's not going to happen. Supposedly the current GT500 engine will not fit in the S550 platform. Ford is moving forward with development of the 5.0 and turbo charging is where they are spending their R&D budget.
 
I don't see it happening. A factory GT350 seems to be almost a certainty at this point for 2016. Rumors are getting pretty strong. Especially since Shelby has stated they are putting their GT350 program on ice after the 2014 model year run "to evaluate the new platform". My take is that this means production will move to dearborn. The GT350 will be the true successor to the boss as a dedicated track car. Strong rumors that the GT500 is dead after this next year and the SVT Cobra will be back. Preliminary reports have the 2016 GT350 coming with a 500HP version of our motor. That would put it right inline with the Z28 plus the new chassis will have an independent rear and should be a lot lighter than the Z.
 
cbj5259 said:
I don't see it happening. A factory GT350 seems to be almost a certainty at this point for 2016. Rumors are getting pretty strong. Especially since Shelby has stated they are putting their GT350 program on ice after the 2014 model year run "to evaluate the new platform". My take is that this means production will move to dearborn. The GT350 will be the true successor to the boss as a dedicated track car. Strong rumors that the GT500 is dead after this next year and the SVT Cobra will be back. Preliminary reports have the 2016 GT350 coming with a 500HP version of our motor. That would put it right inline with the Z28 plus the new chassis will have an independent rear and should be a lot lighter than the Z.
I agree and am betting on the GT350 as the S550 track car. To be continued... ;)
 
NFSBOSS said:
While I'm sure it's possible it's not going to happen. Supposedly the current GT500 engine will not fit in the S550 platform. Ford is moving forward with development of the 5.0 and turbo charging is where they are spending their R&D budget.

Ditto

Twin turbo 5.0

Mmmm...
 
I see where you are going, but man, the timing, the seem to be repeating history of Chevy again reacting to what ford is doing and the horsepower wars just makes sense to me. I think giving a non retro, new style Mustang killer performance and then calling it something from the past will help keep the soul of the Mustang alive in the next generation of buyers. Personally I think now that Mr Shelby is no longer with us, they should go in a separate direction and not use his name out of respect.
 
The problem with the Z28 is...well its not really a Z28. Its a 427ci fatty with great brakes, suspension, wheels and tires. Ford stayed true to what a Boss 302 was and brought it back as a Boss 302 only a modern interpretation. The Z28 was was 302 and later a 350. It was never a 427. All Chevy did was make a road monster and slap a Z28 badge on it. Ford stays true to its history. Chevy just pimps out a name.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
Easier to follow from behind then lead from the front GM. Totally agree the Z-427 was built to beat the Boss. We will see how this plays out. Thinking not so good for the bow tie guys.
The only 429 Boss I have ever seen on the street was a 1971. It was about 1985 and I saw it a couple times in North Seattle , Ballard Blue ridge on Holman Road to be exact. The earth shock as it went by! there was no doubt who was Boss!
 
In an actual race I am willing to bet the present Z28 will just break constantly. Seems like Boss owners have enough trouble due to the intake restriction plates (stupidest way ever to dial down HP when the ECU can be programmed to dial back timing, IMO). I am willing to bet a bigger engine will have even more trouble.
 
I wouldn't see the point in Ford following Chevy's footsteps on the Z28. I thought I read somewhere that it would start around 60-70k. Ford can just make a well balanced 26k car and let people run wild with the mods to beat the Z28.
 
401
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Putting a massive V8 in a car isnt going to prove anything. Ford needs to change the game, because horsepower wars will never end. Now that we have a proper suspension in the car, lets see where the 5.0 sets the bar (with respect to Ford of course). From there, we can take the fight to Chevy. The Z28 looks scary, but it is a track-car and we shouldn't be looking at Ford to "match" it because its pretty hard to sell a 70K Mustang unless it has a Shelby badge attached to it.
 
A reprise of the B9. Now that would be something!

I owned a B9 from 1979-1983. It was a Whimbledon White '69, KK1318, with a numbers matching "820S" motor. Last time I checked it was in the Telstar Motors collection in Mitchell, SD. I still have pretty vivid recollections about that car.

It was a HS grad present from my Dad, but I had to go in halfsies, so had some skin in the game. About every damned dime I made over the next 4 years went into that friggin' Boss 9. But what a machine, especially for a dumb-ass 19 year old kid!

Being one of the first 279 or so (they started at KK1201) produced in '69, it had the 820S motor with short length rods w/ 1/2 cap screw rod bolts. These rods are erroneously referred to as "NASCAR" rods; they actually were not... the actual rods used in NASCAR-spec B9 motors were longer and lighter, had an oiling hole up the middle of the rod beam, and used special 1/2" rod bolts with a funky bolt head that required a special tool to tighten (and they tighten to bolt stretch, not torque).

In any case, the stock rods were an achilles heel... they are heavy and prone to spinning rod bearings. Happened to my motor necessitating a rebuild. At the time most B9 builders went with re-sized MOPAR Hemi rods, which were slightly thinner, lighter and less prone to oiling problems.

The valve train was another problem area. The valve geometry with any kind of a high lift cam using stock rocker arms was/is problematic, especially on the exhaust valves. Back then there weren't any good options for billet roller rockers, so you had to make do w/ stock rockers. So valve lash was really important to get right, or you'd easily break a valve stem and drop a valve at high RPM. Also, the huge, heavy stock valves (not helped by the stock hyd cam) would float above about 6500 RPM. I broke a valve spring on my motor the summer I bought it racing a 440 6-Pack Super Bee. The motor was rebuilt using MOPAR Hemi SS intake valves and 427 SOHC sodium-filled exhaust valves.

I don't recall having problems with the head O-rings, but I remember they were a PITA to deal with and were pretty expensive and getting hard to find even back then, although Ford actually still had them available in its parts system in the late '70s and early '80s.

Once I got the car sorted it was a beast. All you had to do was put a decent size carb, solid lifter cam, and headers to really open up the motor and let it breathe properly. Ended up running a Crower solid cam, Holley 850 DP on the stock dual plane intake, and Sanderson headers (a total biznitch to get the driver's side header to fit around the clutch Z bar!) and a 4:30 Detroit Locker rear end... about 3,500 RPM in 4th at 60 mph!

The car was was pretty finicky, though. You could tell it was a race engine tamed for the street.... really sensitive to valve lash setting, timing, carb jetting... even changes in climate/time of year... tough to get it right, but when it was it ran to like a bastard from hell. That short stroke big block would rev to the moon and made huge power the faster it ran, although, of course, it was a bit weak on torque below about 4K RPM.

Biggest mistake I made was selling it when I graduated from college, got married and went off to Navy flight school. Sigh....! Truthfully, though, the new Boss 302 stock out of the box is way faster than a stock Boss 9, and faster even that my old breathed-on Boss 9. Still, I miss that car and the view from the driver's seat looking out over that huge hood scoop. Way outta my league these days price-wise to entertain getting another one, unfortunately.
 
cbj5259 said:
The problem with the Z28 is...well its not really a Z28. Its a 427ci fatty with great brakes, suspension, wheels and tires. Ford stayed true to what a Boss 302 was and brought it back as a Boss 302 only a modern interpretation. The Z28 was was 302 and later a 350. It was never a 427. All Chevy did was make a road monster and slap a Z28 badge on it. Ford stays true to its history. Chevy just pimps out a name.

This!
 
Brandon302 said:
I wouldn't see the point in Ford following Chevy's footsteps on the Z28. I thought I read somewhere that it would start around 60-70k. Ford can just make a well balanced 26k car and let people run wild with the mods to beat the Z28.

I wouldn't bet on anything. these are the same people that decided 285's were good on a 662 HP car, when all of it's competition were packing 315's and having traction issues with them.
I have witnessed amazing things in the automotive world and tremendously stupid things as well. I don't count on any manufacturer to do anything smart till it hits the showroom floor.

Just think, someone thought a remote mount shifter in a race car was a good idea even after nearly 100 years of building cars, they STILL make the same stupid mistakes. We shall see what the future brings.
 

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